[Cascade]

Apollo81, on Feb 23 2008, 03:07 PM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 22 2008, 07:31 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Feb 23 2008, 01:08 PM, said:

Part 2: LHO makes the cheapest possible spade bid, partner and RHO pass, your call

Partner passes even if I raise hearts?

Yes.

I pass.

[pclayton]

Since I pass the first time, I am pleased to balance with 3♣. I'm feeling pretty good right about now.

What happens over 3♣?

[whereagles]

Good hand for transfer advances: bid 2♠ and pass pard's 3♣, else keep bidding.

With no advances I'll try 3♥. Pard will usually have 6 hearts anyway.

[Halo]

Jlall, on Feb 23 2008, 02:10 AM, said:

I read this thread again and am truly shocked. People do not bid their 7 card suits anymore? I thought this was a terrible problem but I guess it was a very good one, wd noble

I think this post is total bullshit.

[jdonn]

Halo, on Feb 23 2008, 03:36 PM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 23 2008, 02:10 AM, said:

I read this thread again and am truly shocked. People do not bid their 7 card suits anymore? I thought this was a terrible problem but I guess it was a very good one, wd noble

I think this post is total bullshit.

Someone sounds like he needs to take a nap. Why would you think that, and why would you state it that way?? Is it hard to believe someone would be shocked that with good values and a 7!!! card suit on the side people are finding all sorts of random stuff to bid?

[Halo]

jdonn, on Feb 23 2008, 04:08 PM, said:

Halo, on Feb 23 2008, 03:36 PM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 23 2008, 02:10 AM, said:

I read this thread again and am truly shocked. People do not bid their 7 card suits anymore? I thought this was a terrible problem but I guess it was a very good one, wd noble

I think this post is total bullshit.

Someone sounds like he needs to take a nap. Why would you think that, and why would you state it that way?? Is it hard to believe someone would be shocked that with good values and a 7!!! card suit on the side people are finding all sorts of random stuff to bid?

Whoah Jdonn has weighed in with one of his asshole comments.

[jdonn]

I only see two posts in this thread that use foul language, and they are also the only two posts that had nothing to say about the bridge hand. What is it with some people on the forums lately?

[Halo]

jdonn, on Feb 23 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

I only see two posts in this thread that use foul language, and they are also the only two posts that had nothing to say about the bridge hand. What is it with some people on the forums lately?

Ah better.

The problem of showing long suits on marginal or less hands is a perennial feature of bidding systems.

Hence JLalls comment is obtuse or offensive. Not sure what you are about.

[jdonn]

Halo, on Feb 23 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

Hence JLalls comment is obtuse or offensive.

Without even addressing the issue of whether it is obtuse (something that wouldn't warrant any sort of strongly negative reaction in any case) it's certainly not offensive. So you overreacted for no reason.

Quote

Not sure what you are about.

Defending my friend who was needlessly attacked, and trying to find out why?

Perhaps someone who can find nothing better to do than call others bullshit and assholes should be more concerned with what he is about rather than others.

[pclayton]

I'll try to address this from a quasi-rational point of view.

Bidding 3♣ could obviously work out well. Very well - especially if we catch pard with a club fit or a lot of extras.

However, I have seen many times where we are just goaded into a ugly 3N when pard has a non-fitting 14 count. 4♥ might be on, or 3N, or even 5♣, but on balance, I think its better to pass. I haven't seen any arguments why bidding is right, just a lot of "uh this is obvious".

Frankly, this is why I think transfer advances are nice. We don't rate to get overboard when pard has the wrong minimum, or a non-fitting max.

[Cascade]

In another thread we are currently discussing the merits of a 2♥ overcall on an 8-count 1=6=4=2 hand.

If we overcall there with 8 hcp and force here with 9 hcp there is nothing more certain than we will be too high too often.

Possibly the answer is as Phil suggests to employ different methods. He suggests transfer advances and they certainly have merit for our constructive bidding with a downside of giving the opponents an extra round of bidding.

Another possible solution is that 3♣ is constructive but not forcing. We play a similar structure after we have overcalled the opponent's 1NT (usually weak): new suits are constructive but not forcing and 2NT is an artificial force. This of course gives up on a natural 2NT. Another possibility is that a cue-bid (2♠) could be more flexible than always guaranteeing support.

As it is with 3♣ being forcing I think we are just about short a king to bid.

[Apollo81]

Partner's hand is Kx AJ109x Qxxx Kx

I doubled 3♠ which should go off one, but I made a defensive error and allowed it to make. 4♣ would have made.

[TimG]

Cascade, on Feb 23 2008, 07:45 PM, said:

In another thread we are currently discussing the merits of a 2♥ overcall on an 8-count 1=6=4=2 hand.

If we overcall there with 8 hcp and force here with 9 hcp there is nothing more certain than we will be too high too often.

This ignores the opponents to a certain extent. If we are 2=2=2=7 and partner is 1=6=4=2 with a partnership total of 17 HCP, that means the opponents have 10 spades and 23 HCP -- they will surely be bidding more. If we silence them with our strong sounding bidding, perhaps we will unwittingly find a good sacrifice, even against their partscore.

BTW, I voted for pass -- I agree that we could easily get overboard by forcing with 3C -- but I would be happy to transfer to clubs if that were available.

[Cascade]

TimG, on Feb 24 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 23 2008, 07:45 PM, said:

In another thread we are currently discussing the merits of a 2♥ overcall on an 8-count 1=6=4=2 hand.

If we overcall there with 8 hcp and force here with 9 hcp there is nothing more certain than we will be too high too often.

This ignores the opponents to a certain extent. If we are 2=2=2=7 and partner is 1=6=4=2 with a partnership total of 17 HCP, that means the opponents have 10 spades and 23 HCP -- they will surely be bidding more. If we silence them with our strong sounding bidding, perhaps we will unwittingly find a good sacrifice, even against their partscore.

BTW, I voted for pass -- I agree that we could easily get overboard by forcing with 3C -- but I would be happy to transfer to clubs if that were available.

I wasn't suggesting that partner is likely to be 1=6=4=2 that just happened to be the other hand under discussion.

[benlessard]

I think passing is gross. If you give me the choice between passing and closing my eyes and make a random bid from 2S- to 3nt i still dont consider pass a sensible alternative.

2S...not so bad better then pass for sure.
2Nt again not so bad better then pass for sure
3C perfect
3D better then pass imho
3H obvioulsy better then pass
3S ugh but not disastrous
3Nt ugh but not disastrous

[Cascade]

benlessard, on Feb 24 2008, 09:59 PM, said:

3C perfect

I think describing 3♣ as perfect is a big overbid.

Perfect would be some 12/3 count not a 9 count.

[benlessard]

Meant perfect as im happy my random bid fall on 3C i should have said "lucky" or "Bingo"