[vincenzo]

Pairs is taking place in Slovakia and team will be in August in Thailand.

Is a vugraph expected for these events ?

Vincenzo

[Walddk]

Maybe read

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...=0&#entry142427

Most likely we will get the same question 2 or 3 weeks before Bangkok, and I predict that we won't be any wiser then. Call me a pessimist, but I am not too hopeful. We had a hard time in Italy, Vincenzo. There was not a single Italian volunteer operator in sight. Hervé Lustman was very disappointed (to put it diplomatically). Fortunately, Fancesca Canali (queequeg) offered her hep.

I can't see how how one can be more optimistic next time.

Roland

[vincenzo]

Sorry ... who is Hervé Lustman ?

why he was disappointed ? He has been disappointed not to have found in Verona volunteers vugraph operators ??

Every organization that is interested to broadcast on bbo the events should take charge the costs of the vugraph operators.

I well know queequeg, I have met her in Verona, she is a BBO ITALIA td, is a very nice girl and she has already broadcasted some FIGB events.

Vugraph can't be based on volunteers.

We will not find in future many queequegs !!

WBF, and all national bridge federations have not understood this, and have not understood that they MUST consider also these small costs in the organization budget (one less person for free in a five star hotel ..... and suddenly we can find some $$$ to pay the vugraph operators !!!!)

Vincenzo

[Walddk]

vincenzo, on Jul 2 2006, 08:33 PM, said:

Sorry ... who is  Hervé Lustman ?

The BBO chief vugraph operator for more than 4 years! He is French. And if you think that the organisers should pay to get vugraph operators (I do not disagree), why are you asking BBO if we are going to broadcast from Slovakia and Thailand?

Why don't you ask the WBF?

Roland

[mr1303]

I can help on this front.

I spoke to someone high up in the WBF in Slovakia and he said there will DEFINITELY be coverage of the teams championship on vugraph.

Equally, he said that the reasons for the lack of coverage of the World Junior Pairs was for the following reasons:

1) The WBF has put a lot of resources into coverage from Verona

2) There are not very many spectators who are interested in watching here on site in Piestany

3) There will be a high level of coverage from Bangkok.

I wasn't in a mood to argue with these points at the time. Anyway, the person said that I can quote him directly, so there you go

[extrasolid]

Hello,

who has to pay is an interesting question. BBO is the best possibility to play bridge in the internet in the moment I think. It is nice that it is free. May be for some good reasons (thanks to Fred) it should be.

But, there is no need that viewgraph ist free. If the "big events" would cost a dollar per day e. g., you could get some money for the organization.

Uli

[JanM]

extrasolid, on Jul 4 2006, 03:43 PM, said:

But, there is no need that viewgraph ist free. If the "big events" would cost a dollar per day e. g., you could get some money for the organization.

Well, as I've said before, you're going to see a request (not demand) for money during the Vugraph of the USBC this August. Hopefully, our beefed up website plus coverage of all of the matches from the Round of 16 on will be something to which a significant number of people will contribute. (and the last time I mentioned this I got a contribution, for which I was extremely grateful ).

However, I think that one WBF problem is that they choose to spend a lot of money on live Vugraph at the site. Thus the comment that they didn't have Vugraph from Piestany because there weren't many people there who wanted to watch it. Suggesting here that that's a mistake is preaching to the choir of course. In time, I suspect most major tournaments will go to Internet-only Vugraph, perhaps with a computer and projector at the playing site. You can cover a lot more tables a lot more efficiently and less expensively that way. But it takes time for things to change.

[vincenzo]

Roland,

Many times we have broadcasted events without the organization have payed for this. For this reason I have posted to this forum and don't asked to WBF !!

Meaning of my question was:

- Does somebody will pay for vugraph operators (wbf or a possible sponsor) so the junior championships will be broadcasted ?

- Have we found volunteers ? ... without being disappointed if it is not possible to find them !


Vincenzo

[hrothgar]

JanM, on Jul 5 2006, 06:31 PM, said:

Well, as I've said before, you're going to see a request (not demand) for money during the Vugraph of the USBC this August. Hopefully, our beefed up website plus coverage of all of the matches from the Round of 16 on will be something to which a significant number of people will contribute.

Few comments / suggestions regarding Vugraph along with a couple predictions how this side of the “business” will evolve over time. I'd like to decompose the the work associated with provisioning online Vugraph into three distinct elements:

1. Local infrastructure: Local infrastructure describes all of the hardware and labor that is required to transmit information from the site at which the tournament is held to the Internet. Local infrastructure encompassed a number of separate expenses including the Internet connection, provisioning laptops, arranging for Vugraph operators, etc.

2. Global infrastructure: Global infrastructure refers to the software services that relays information from the site to Vugraph audience scattered all across the Internet.

3. Commentary: Commentary is a service offering that gets layered on top of the raw Vugraph.

Here's how I'd structure the business model (Please note: I am making an explicit assumption that organizations like the WBF, the ACBL, or the local hosts will not subsidize local infrastructure. Its all fine and dandy if they want to do so, but I don't expect them to do so indefinitely. Moreover, we're seeing large number of cases in which desired Vugraph services aren't available because the necessary operating expenses aren't being built in to the budgetary process).

Individuals submit bids to provide “local infrastructure” for event XYZ. The bid will document a set of services that will be provided, along with the fee required to provide this service. End users have the option to donate money to fund the local infrastructure. In theory, a tiered service offering would be possible. (The fixed cost for the Internet connection is $850. I will provide coverage of one table for an additional $150. Two tables for $300....) In the short term, an existing web service like “Fundable” (http://www.fundable.org/) can be used to collect money. I believe that the key to success is going to be providing true transparency into the cost structure. From my own perspective, I'd be willing to provide funds to offset the expenses required associated with provisioning the local site. However, I wouldn't contribute anything if any of the money was being kicked back to the WBF or the ACBL.

Global infrastructure is provide by BBO (In theory, a competitor could evolve over time)

Personally, I'd like to see a system implemented in which commentators could charge for their services. Image a scenario in which Erik Kokish, Fred, and a couple others could band together and agree that they would provide commentary on the USA1 – Italy match XYZ in exchange for $2,000. (Needless to say, this type of system would work best if BBO were to implement multiple chat channels.) Here, once again, a system like Fundable could be used to coordinate the transfer of funds.

Long term, I'd argue that it would be in BBO's best interest to duplicate the functionality provided by Fundable. The funding system that I describe requires that someone operate as an honest broker. Someone needs to hold the money that has been pledged to fund and event, evaluate whether the local service provider has lived up to the terms of their “contract”, and then transfer the resources. Personally, I doubt that online Vugraph will ever be large enough to get much attention from the PayPals of the world. However, this might be a nice little niche for BBO. (Futhermore, given all of the infrastructure that BBO is already being added for money bridge and tournaments it should be relatively easy to add this into the mix).

[Apollo81]

mr1303, on Jul 2 2006, 07:19 PM, said:

I can help on this front.

.....

3) There will be a high level of coverage from Bangkok.

.....

Any details on vugraph coverage in Bangkok yet?

[Walddk]

Apollo81, on Jul 10 2006, 07:19 PM, said:

mr1303, on Jul 2 2006, 07:19 PM, said:

I can help on this front.

.....

3) There will be a high level of coverage from Bangkok.

.....

Any details on vugraph coverage in Bangkok yet?

On a positive note, we have received a letter from the Director of Operations for the World Youth Team Championships, and that's a good sign. Last week I forwarded the letter to our contacts in Thailand and I now assume that they will take it from there.

However, it is unlikely to be "comprehensive coverage" unless the local organisers can find plenty of volunteer operators. What we are guaranteed is a broadcast from one match in every round, e.g. the official vugraph match in Bangkok.

Roland

[Walddk]

Bureaucracy has taken over.

"We are still waiting for a response from the PABF Executives for approval", was the laconic response I got from my contact in the Far East when I asked if there is anything new to tell.

The WBF has approved:

"It is possible for me to arrange a computer and internet connection for broadcasting a match on BBO in every round (the open room table that we are presenting on our VG)", it read in an e-mail from the Director of Operations. So far so good, but ...

The PABF is deliberating. Judge for yourselves. My comment can be expressed with one word:

Sigh ...

Roland

[Walddk]

Walddk, on Jul 1 2006, 12:19 PM, said:

Most likely we will get the same question 2 or 3 weeks before Bangkok, and I predict that we won't be any wiser then. Call me a pessimist, but I am not too hopeful.

That's what I wrote on July 1. Now I am asked that question over and over again every time I log in to BBO. The championships start in 18 days, and the PABF is still deliberating it appears. I am really sorry that I was proven right, but it was quite predictable.

Roland

[geller]

Quote

"We are still waiting for a response from the PABF Executives for approval"

I don't understand this. It's true that Thailand is a member country of the PABF (as are Japan, China, Indonesia,....), but the World Youth Teams is a WBF-run event, so I don't understand why the PABF would be involved. If this is really the case maybe someone could email me the detals (rather than post them here--may be some sensitive things) and perhaps something could be done (no promises of course).

[Apollo81]

So it seems like there will be no BBO vugraph at all in Thailand? Is this right?

[Walddk]

Apollo81, on Jul 24 2006, 04:31 PM, said:

So it seems like there will be no BBO vugraph at all in Thailand? Is this right?

No, things have changed. Read:

http://forums.bridge...pic=14960&st=45

The post from Dimitris Ballas.

Roland