[roghog]

Scoring: IMP

1♠ - 2♦
2♥ - 4NT
5♣ - 6♥
Very long pause before the 5♣.

N asked E what 5♣ showed, and was told no Ace, and no K of trumps. W intervened to explain that he wasn't sure what version of Blackwood they were playing (NS had already figured out that that must be the problem!), and had made the wrong response.

NS summon you and ask for an adjusted score. Your ruling?

---

[rwylee]

No adjustment needed. No damage.

[jillybean]

I dont see how N/S have been damaged in any way. Pairs forget partnership agreements and get them wrong, that in itself is not a reason to make an adjustment.

jb

[inquiry]

Question. North asked about 5♣ (and why?) when during the acution? Before or After EAST had bid 6♥'s?

If AFTER EAST bid 6♥, no adjustment.

If BEFORE EAST bid 6♥, and WEST then volunteered the information he did, then I would roll back to 5♥ make six.

There are a lot of reasons WEST might pause.. wndering if he should show a void with or not (he could have a void here), Trying to figure out what the heck 4NT was... does it agree hearts, so RKCB, is it regular blackwood, is it quantative. BTW, I don't play last major bid on these non-agreement auctions. So I might take a long time to make a bid here too.... as i try to figure out what PARTNER might think 4NT bid means. Assuming 2D was gf, to ask in hearts, EAST has to bid 3H first THEN BID 4NT, so I am certain whatever 4NT is, it is not RKCB for hearts (at least not for me)... but having said that, WEST can not be allowed to say what he said in a live auction, thus the correction if he said it BEFORE east bid 6HEARTS.

[david_c]

East says 4NT is keycard for hearts, and the 5♣ response shows none, so East "knows" that the partnership is missing two keycards.* So surely 5♥ is a LA. Since 6♥ scores better, if we rule that East made use of UI then N/S certainly have been damaged.

The only question is, does the hesitation suggest 6♥ over 5♥? Ben is right, of course, that there are many possible reasons for the hesitation. Nevertheless, I think 6♥ is suggested. East was clearly planning to bid slam opposite one keycard, but he hears a response saying zero. However East knows that partner was uncomfortable with his bid, so it becomes rather attractive to just bid slam anyway thereby avoiding any possible accidents that might have occurred. After all, even if partner does have no keycards, slam will probably still be on a finesse. But no, this reasoning is making use of the UI, and that is not allowed.

So I'll be adjusting the score to 5♥+1.

*Some Easts might claim that their hand is so strong that West must have at least one keycard to make enough for an opening bid. I would not agree with that.

[roghog]

inquiry, on Jun 17 2006, 11:22 PM, said:

Question. North asked about 5♣ (and why?) when during the auction? Before or After EAST had bid 6♥'s?

There are a lot of reasons WEST might pause.. wondering if he should show a void with or not (he could have a void here),  Trying to figure out what the heck 4NT was...

Apologies for the omissions. To complete the picture...

North asked at the end of the auction

4NT had been alerted promptly. The 2-over-1 response was not GF.

[kgr]

david_c, on Jun 18 2006, 01:35 AM, said:

East says 4NT is keycard for hearts, and the 5♣ response shows none, so East "knows" that the partnership is missing two keycards.* So surely 5♥ is a LA. Since 6♥ scores better, if we rule that East made use of UI then N/S certainly have been damaged.

The only question is, does the hesitation suggest 6♥ over 5♥? Ben is right, of course, that there are many possible reasons for the hesitation. Nevertheless, I think 6♥ is suggested. East was clearly planning to bid slam opposite one keycard, but he hears a response saying zero. However East knows that partner was uncomfortable with his bid, so it becomes rather attractive to just bid slam anyway thereby avoiding any possible accidents that might have occurred. After all, even if partner does have no keycards, slam will probably still be on a finesse. But no, this reasoning is making use of the UI, and that is not allowed.

So I'll be adjusting the score to 5♥+1.

*Some Easts might claim that their hand is so strong that West must have at least one keycard to make enough for an opening bid. I would not agree with that.

Agree 100%
Would east have bid 6H over a fast 5C. Maybe not...Probably Not. Adjusting to 5H

[hotShot]

Obviously this was an offline bridge problem, why else would north ask east about wests bidding.
First off all i would ask north what he planed to bid when he asked about the 5♣ bid. If he did not intend to bid, i will inform him that the appropriate action is to ask when the bidding is finished, because he is creating UI for his partner that might lead to lead restrictions or even a corrected score. Additionally he helps opps to avoid bidding missunderstandings (if not working with screens).

No keycards with 5♠ and 4♥ means 4 minor cards.
The only HCP worth nonkeycards are ♣KJ, ♦Q,♠QJ and ♥QJ.
With that holding 6♥ is made if north has the ♥K, 50% is a reasonable slam.
But 5♥ is a LA.

[blackshoe]

The questions are:

1. Was there a BIT? Apparently so.
2. What are East's logical alternatives? I would say 6♥ is an LA. Pass is not. 5♥? Well, as someone said, West has apparently denied a keycard (or shown three, but East knows that's not possible, since he has three). That in itself, however, doesn't make 5♥ an LA, given the strength of East's hand. The question I asked myself after reading the original post was "did East ask for aces because he was trying to decide between 6♥ and 7♥, or because he was trying to be sure 6♥ would make?" I suppose it depends on East's skill level, and we aren't told that. A beginner bids 4NT because it's, as far as he knows, a necessary prelude to bidding any slam. A better player, OTOH, knows that's not true. So, IMO, 5♥ may or may not be an LA for this player. Since if it's not we can stop here and rule that there was no infraction of law, let's assume it is.
3. Did the BIT demonstrably suggest the chosen action over an LA? Well, I agree with Ben - there are a lot of things West might have been thinking. I don't think bidding 6♥ is demonstrably suggested by the BIT (ACBL guidance here is to ask yourself "is it obvious?"), so again, no infraction, score stands.
4. If, after all, we decide that 6♥ was demonstrably suggested, then we adjust, because clearly 6♥ making is a worse score for the defense than 5♥+1, so they were damaged.

In any case, I would admonish West to keep his mouth shut when his partner is making explanations, unless he needs to correct an erroneous explanation (cf. Law 75), which does not seem to be the case here. As Ben suggests, if West's comment was made before East bid 6♥ we have UI not only from the BIT, but also from the comment - and the latter clearly does suggest bidding 6. If I know West (or his reputation) well enough to think he should know better than to make such comments, I would consider a PP (in the ACBL, the "standard" PP is 25% of a top at matchpoints; in other places it's 10%. I'm in the ACBL, but I prefer the latter, particularly in club games).

[P_Marlowe]

roghog, on Jun 18 2006, 04:18 AM, said:

inquiry, on Jun 17 2006, 11:22 PM, said:

Question. North asked about 5♣ (and why?) when during the auction? Before or After EAST had bid 6♥'s?

There are a lot of reasons WEST might pause.. wondering if he should show a void with or not (he could have a void here),  Trying to figure out what the heck 4NT was...

Apologies for the omissions. To complete the picture...

North asked at the end of the auction

4NT had been alerted promptly. The 2-over-1 response was not GF.

Hi,

in this case, I would let the
score stand.

Unless you think East lied, he
did bid the small in the knowledge
that 2 Keycards were missing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[olegru]

Lets put ous in the East shoes

♠ AK
♥ AT63
♦ KJ63
♣ AQ8

Partner oppened 1♠, after our 2♦ reply 2♥ and after RKCB without hesitation shows no keycards.
Could it be? Yes
♠QJ, ♥QJ, ♦Q, ♣K is 11 points and he could opened with that hand.

How many tricks I can see accross that hand? 5 in ♠ + 3 in ♣ + 2 in ♦ + Ace of ♥ = 11. Where are not bad chances for 12th trick and 6NT bid definitely make sence but someone can stop on the 5 level too.

Now what happened in the real live. West hesitated befor reply 5♣.
By his hesitation East has available unauthorised information. East can't be sure but he knows West had some problem with his bid. What kind of problem could it be? Or he has ♥K but doesn't sure 4NT is standard or key card or he has void in minor (probably ♦ ) and doesn't sure should he show it or not. In the both cases 6♥ call suggested.

Quote

1. Does the accused player have unauthorized information in consequence of an action by his partner?

Yes, he does

Quote

2. Could the unauthorized information be thought to suggest demonstrably the action that was taken by the player who possessed it?

100%.

Quote

Were there logical alternatives (or was there a logical alternative1) that the player could have selected in place of the action that is questioned?

5♥, 6NT.

Quote

4. Have the opponents been damaged in consequence of the player's action when in possession of the unauthorized information?

I believe so.

So adjust to 5♥+1.

I will not buy argument about East hand is too strong for 5♥ - 6NT is preferable than 6♥ without unauthorized information and he can bid 6NT avoid taking any advantage that might accrue to his side - if he wanted.