[Adebisi]

Hi, im looking for good follow-up after 15+ 1C opening and 1D 0-8 neg response.
1NT is 12-14 so 1C-1D-1NT=should be 15-17, but rest?Especially how to deal with 4441 hands?Any good ideas?

[Free]

Here's what I play:

1♥ = extra's, relay (1♠ double negative)
1♠ = 5+♠
1NT = minimum, can be semibalanced (5422, 5431, 4441)
2m = (5)6+m
2♥ = (5)6+♥

It usually works out ok when bidding 1NT on semi balanced hands, but it can be hard when you have 5♥ and some side 4 card suit.

After double negative:
1NT = natural, can be semibalanced (4441, 5422, usually no 5431 -> canapé transfer)
2♣ = any GF (2♦ is waiting bid, other are extremely weak and natural)
2♦/M = canapé transfer
2NT = a non-minimum NT hand
3♣ = canapé transfer

[Robert]

Hi everyone

I use a 16+ 1C, however, your 15+ might be able to use the method.

1C-1D-1H*=either natural with hearts(Kokish two way type style) or shows a club suit.

Responder bids a semi auto 1S and opener bids 1NT* with a club hand and any other bid shows hearts and the suit bid.

1C-1D-1S* 1 round force showing 4+ spades. Responder bids 1NT with 0-5HCP,
2C* with 6-7HCP, 2D*=3 card raise, 2H=natural or bids 2S with 4 card support.

1C-1D-1NT* shows 18-20HCP balanced. You might want to 'switch' your NT opening range to a medium 14-16 or 15-17 or you will be 'jumping' to 2NT with 18HCP opposite a known 0-7(8?)HCP. You could also use the 1C-1D-1H as a 18+ relay, however, that causes other problems with the higher rebids.

1C-1D-2C* shows diamonds.

1C-1D-2D* shows 4441 types with 19+ HCP. My testing suggested that the minimum 4441 types should try to stay low opposite a 1D reply.

Changing the range to 19+ also allows very accurate bidding opposite weak hand types.

1C-1D-2H*(Kokish style) strong two hearts or 25+HCP(if 2NT rebid)

I also use a multi 2D opening to show either 6M or 27-28HCP.

1C-1D-2S* minors at least 5-5

1C-1D-2NT=23-24

1C-1D-3C natural force with 5+ clubs

1C-1D-3D natural force with 5+ diamonds

1C-1D-3M= 1 round force with 4(+)M and 6(+) diamonds with a very strong hand.

1C-1D-3NT=to play with long minor and hope for nine tricks.

1C-1D-4C(5503) and 1C-1D-4D(5530)

Regards,
Robert

[NickToll]

I like the following development, derived by Tony Forrester (TRS System, 80s). I admit it doesn't fit with everyone's taste, but maybe you can find it interesting. This version is partially modified, in order to include 15+ balanced hands (Forrester starts from 17, playing 14-16 1NT): you be the judge (uhm... where did I hear this one?...)

1♣ - 1♦ - ?

1♥: minimum 2suiter, higher suit is longer, or 15-17 balanced or GF balanced; 1♠ is semiautomatic, then:
1NT 15-17
2♣ clubs + a major (2♦ relay for the major)
2♦ diamonds + a major (2♥/♠ pass/correct)
2♥ majors
2♠ minors
2NT GF balanced

1♠: minimum 2suiter, lower suit is longer; 1NT is relay (not mandatory), then:
2♣ clubs + a major (2♦ relay for the major)
2♦ diamonds + a major (2♥♠ pass/correct)
2♥ majors
2♠ minors

1NT: transfer to clubs, or 18-20 balanced; here 2♣ is double negative, and opener:
pass minimum 1suiter
2♦ 18-20 balanced
2♥♠ clubs and this suit, non-minimum (otherwise 1♠), one-round force
2NT clubs and diamonds, non-minimum, one-round force
3♣ 18-20 1suiter
positive bids by responder: 2♦ general positive, 2♥♠ 5card suit, 2NT long diamonds, 3♣ INV raise, 3♦+ Splinter: now opener's 3♣ is limit, others are game-forcing;

2♣: transfer to diamonds; here 2♦ double negative, 2♥ general positive, 2♠/3♣ natural, 2NT hearts, 3♦ INV raise, 3♥+ Splinter; further development is as after 1NT, not considering balanced 18-20; after a general positive, 2NT by opener shows a 2suiter: the second suit is the one artificially bid by partner.

2♦: transfer to hearts; here 2♥ double negative, 2♠ general positive, 2NT spades, 3♣♦ natural, 3♥ INV raise, 3♠+ Splinter;

2♥: transfer to spades; here 2♠ double negative, 2NT general positive, 3♣♦♥ natural, 3♠ INV raise, 4♣+ Splinter;

2♠: 3suiter, 18+; 2NT positive relay for the suit under the singleton, 3♣ and more to play (with 15-17, treat as 2suiter)

2NT: 21-23 balanced

3♣♦♥♠: game-forcing 1suiter

[hrothgar]

I don't like response strucutres based on 1♦ negative to a storng that could be made on a 15 count. Your 1♦ response ends up badly overloaded.

Here's the structure that I'm current using

3N game forcing values, 5=4=4=0 shape
3♠ game forcing values, 4=5=4=0 shape
3♥ game forcing values, 5=4=4=0 shape
3♦ game forcing values, any 5440 with a ♦ void
3♣ any solid suit (AKQxxxx or better)
2N game forcing values, any 5440 with a major suit void
2♠ semi-positive, single suited with Spades
2♥ semi-positive, single suited with Hearts
2♦ semi-positive, 5+ Hearts and 4+ Diamonds
2♣ semi-positive, 5+ Hearts and (4+ Clubs or 4 Spades)
1N semi-positive, unbalanced with 5+ Spades
1♠ artificial double negative
1♥ artificial semi-positive (balanced or unbalanced with 4 card major)
1♦ artifical game force

[luke warm]

i like free's (sort of), except keeping the relay structure, just 2 steps up

1c : 1d
1h (relay, extras) :

• 1s=double neg
  
• 1nt=4+ hearts
  
• 2c=4+ spades
  
• etc

for the 1nt and higher, responder needs to be 5-8 or so with at least 1 control.. i don't like systems that have opener's hand (the strong one) describing, unless it shows a limit hand or a gf hand (1 or 2 nt, for example)

[Free]

Well, usually the relaystructure will get us too high, but not always. We can still relay, but we can also break relays and go to a natural bidding when we don't see any slam... I think it combines both methods very well. Initial responses over the relays are indeed the same like our usual relayscheme.

[ulven]

I play the following over a 15+ 1C and 0-9 1D reply:

1H 17+ w/BAL / (18+) 20+ w/unBAL
1S 15-20 w/5+M (2-suited)
1N 15-16 w/BAL
2C 15-20 w/4*M & 5+m
2D 15-20 w/6+M
2H 15-17 w/4H441
2S 15-17 w/54+ m’s
2N 15-17 w/6+D
3C 15-17 w/6+C
3D 15-17 w/55+ in M’s
3M 15-17 w/7*M

Relays over 1H with 8-9. All NT-intervals are broken into 2-p ranges.

[vang]

hrothgar, on Apr 29 2006, 08:56 PM, said:

I don't like response strucutres based on 1♦ negative to a storng that could be made on a 15 count.  Your 1♦ response ends up badly overloaded.

Here's the structure that I'm current using

3N game forcing values, 5=4=4=0 shape
3♠ game forcing values, 4=5=4=0 shape
3♥ game forcing values, 5=4=4=0 shape
3♦ game forcing values, any 5440 with a ♦ void
3♣ any solid suit (AKQxxxx or better)
2N game forcing values, any 5440 with a major suit void
2♠ semi-positive, single suited with Spades
2♥ semi-positive, single suited with Hearts
2♦ semi-positive, 5+ Hearts and 4+ Diamonds
2♣ semi-positive, 5+ Hearts and (4+ Clubs or 4 Spades)
1N semi-positive, unbalanced with 5+ Spades
1♠ artificial double negative
1♥ artificial semi-positive (balanced or unbalanced with 4 card major)
1♦ artifical game force

can you detail a little bit what happens after 1♣ - 1♠ ? tya

[Sigi_BC84]

vang, on May 2 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

can you detail a little bit what happens after 1♣ - 1♠ ? tya

Here's a document describing it in some detail (and the rest of the entire system in quite some detail :-):

Marston/Thompson Moscito 2005 (your question is answered on page 11).

Maybe Richard plays it differently...

--Sigi

[rbforster]

I play a strong club (16+) similar to Free with 1♣-1♦-1♥ artificial and extras (20+). Other rebids by opener besides 1♥ are natural and limited (~16-19), in particular NF. After the 1♥ (extras) - 1♠ (double negative), I just play 2♣ as an artificial GF and everything else natural. Not quite so fancy as Free's methods, but simple.

[awm]

I've found the following structure to work a bit better than natural bids on minimums, because the sequence 1♣-1♦-2♥ showing 5+♥ is very awkward:

1♣-1♦...

1♥ = extras, try to relay (all others are 15-18)
1♠ = major+minor two suiter, can be (41)44 or 4-5/5-4 either way
1NT = minimum-range balanced
2♣ = both majors, at least 4-4
2♦-2♠ = natural 6+ card suit deny a side 4+ card major
2N = both minors
3♣ = 6+♣ no 4cM

After 1♣-1♦-1♠:

1N = 6+ points, ask for five-card suit
2♣ = 0-5 points, pass/correct for five-card suit
2♦ = ask for major, potentially any strength
2♥/2♠ = 0-5 points and 6-card suit
2N = 0-5 points and 4+/4+ minors
3♣/♦ = 0-5 points and 6-card suit

[rbforster]

awm, on May 7 2006, 11:32 AM, said:

I've found the following structure to work a bit better than natural bids on minimums, because the sequence 1♣-1♦-2♥ showing 5+♥ is very awkward

Thanks for the suggestions, Adam. You're right that bidding 2♥ with 5+ and a minimum was definitely an unpleasant choice in my system.