[AL78]

I might have found a semi-regular partner who is at least competant and is looking to play with me more frequently since his regular partner has become less available. Trial bids came up in a recent session where after 1♠ - 2♠, I bid 3♥, intending it as inviting game and showing where my outside values were, although the more standard way of doing it is showing a suit with 2-3 losers and asking for help. My partner thought I was just bidding out my shape and didn't pick up on what I was saying. My question is, when people make trial bids in this situation, is it normally showing a weak suit needing help or is it showing outside strength and partner assesses how well the hands are fitting together?

This was the hand in question (paying Acol, weak NT):

---

Making 11 tricks for an avg-.

[Cyberyeti]

W has a supermax 2♠ so should really be bidding 4♠ anyway, we play long suit game tries, partner will overrate values there, but with such a good hand you accept anyway.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Playing value showing trial bids, what I play, p with max. and a 4 card heart is
allowed to raise 3H to 4H offering a choice of game.
This is more relevant in a 5 card major context, the 44 will sometimes be better
than the 53, but the 5th card may also be useful if you have to decide, if you
play a 54 or a 44.
It is also relevant, in case p likes to raise spade on a 3 carder.

Value Showing / Short Suit Trial bids have the advantage, that they are easier to
define, what suits are suitable.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[DavidKok]

There are multiple different styles and ways to play these game try bids. If you're curious, the topic has come up a few times before, so it should be doable to find older discussions. Personally I prefer low information game tries.

[pescetom]

I have seen it suggested before that this particular sequence should be played as natural shaping out rather than a trial. The reasons and developments are those outlined by Marlowe above, so I guess it's a question of trial bid style whether you consider it an exception or just a special case. In any case it's important to know what (if anything) the 3H bid says about the hearts suit, beyond being 4 cards.

[mw64ahw]

Try Partner makes a game try - BBO Discussion Forums - Page 2

[barmar]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-March-26, 04:43, said:

This is more relevant in a 5 card major context, the 44 will sometimes be better
than the 53, but the 5th card may also be useful if you have to decide, if you
play a 54 or a 44.

Help suit tries don't preclude finding that 4-4 fit. If responder has 4 cards in the trial suit and they're going to accept the invitation, they can raise the trial suit. Opener can always go back to the original agreed suit if they didn't have 4 cards when making the try.

You can't play in a part score in the trial suit, but that's not usually a concern.

[PrecisionL]

East has 5-Losers, so maybe 3♠ for min/max is better. West should bid game as he has 2 1/2 winners and 4 trumps.

[Zelandakh]

Game tries come in a variety of flavours here:-
Long suit (LSGT): essentially natural; used in the early days of bridge but generally not really in much use beyond social level any more.
Help suit (HSGT): what LSGTs developed into. You bid the suit where you need the most help. Many players call these LSGTs without understanding the difference.
Short suit (SSGT): You bid a shortage. Great when they come up but you can't guarantee the right hand.
Power try: No focus on a specific suit. Usually used for spare bids in another game try method.
Two way: Combining HSGTs and SSGTs into a single method, optionally also including the power try. Best range of auctions but adds complexity.

Absent explicit agreement, I would assume HSGTs with a suitably advanced partner in the first instance, then adjust as needed. As pointed out by other posters, it should not matter too much which type of game try has been employed here as Responder has an easy accept of anything other than a SSGT in ♦. A HSGT does not mean "only look at this suit"; it means "look at this suit if you are marginal on the decision". Here the decision is not marginal.

Finally, Acol is slightly different from most 5cM systems in that 1M - 2M does not necessarily show an 8 card fit. To compensate for that, Acol traditionally uses a non-forcing 2NT game try with a 4 card major. That allows the actual suit game tries to promise a 5th trump in Opener's hand. There are other methods available but this is still probably as good as anything for B/I players.

[Zelandakh]

PrecisionL, on 2026-March-26, 14:45, said:

East has 5-Losers, so maybe 3♠ for min/max is better. West should bid game as he has 2 1/2 winners and 4 trumps.

It is very common in the UK for pairs to play 1-2-3-Stop! As such, I would be somewhat reticent to bid 3♠ here without discussion if I thought partner was beyond (life) beginner status.

[AL78]

Zelandakh, on 2026-March-26, 15:41, said:

It is very common in the UK for pairs to play 1-2-3-Stop! As such, I would be somewhat reticent to bid 3♠ here without discussion if I thought partner was beyond (life) beginner status.

I've never heard of that before, I have always played and encountered 3 as a game invite.

[johnu]

AL78, on 2026-March-26, 17:34, said:

I've never heard of that before, I have always played and encountered 3 as a game invite.

A search finds this thread:

Does anyone play 1-2-3-Stop anymore?

Lots of former forum members made posts here. JLOGIC was Justin Lall's username.