[mr1303]

S: xxx
H: xxx
D 98xxx
C: Q10

Bidding proceeds 1C, 1D, 1S, ?

No exciting agreements.

About to have an argument with partner about this one.

[mw64ahw]

Vulnerability?

[mike777]

3D

[jillybean]

pass

[pescetom]

Non vulnerable I'm ok with 3D.

[akwoo]

3D

ETA: I'm assuming that you've indicated competitive bidding, not unopposed. Also, if I'm playing against weak opponents (across the room, not just at my table) who won't find their slams even with lots of room, and I actually care about results in this situation for some reason, I bid 2D instead.

[mikeh]

Red v red with 8 losers outside of diamonds, I’m not about to get involved. Now, 3D is probably worth biddin if partner has promised never to save over 4M no matter what his (non jump) 1D bid was based upon. But if one is playing with a partner who is prepared to act based upon what you’ve said about your hand, I think passing is probably best.

A weak raise should promise more than a working zero count and should offer some chance of scoring ruffs. Make me 1=4=5=3 or similar and I’d bid 3D.

Obviously, anything could work on any given hand.

[DavidKok]

I think pass is normal without specific agreements to the contrary, for all the reasons mikeh gave. Personally I play that 2NT shows this garbage raise, so that partner doesn't get too excited.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-15, 14:13, said:

Personally I play that 2NT shows this garbage raise, so that partner doesn't get too excited.

And with the natural 2NT hand?
Not disagreeing, just to understand.

[DavidKok]

pescetom, on 2026-February-15, 16:34, said:

And with the natural 2NT hand?
Not disagreeing, just to understand.

It doesn't exist. The auction went (1♣)-1♦-(1♠)-?. In theory we can say that the opening was on a 10-count, the voluntary 1♠ on a 5-count, and we have 3NT on power waiting for us. In practice usually at least one opponent has more than a total minimum¹. What's more, the 1♦ overcall doesn't promise much, and can well be based on shape. Opposite such hands we should be really hesitant to bid a lot on a misfit. And no excuses, no 'I thought you would have more for the overcall' - we can count the beans, if it seems like there's 45 in the pack probably partner upgraded with a shapely hand. I think 1NT as approximately 9-12 is perfectly playable here, leaving space for partner, covering the range we are somewhat plausible to hold, and not hanging partner for overcalling light. If we can't cough up a 2♣ diamond raise or a 2♥ heart suit, there's no game in sight.

With my aggressive overcall style the argument is even stronger. If 1♦ can be a nice 7-count the lower limit where a natural 2NT is reasonably safe is higher than the amount we'd need to ask partner for game interest. It's become a pure blast-or-pass situation.

¹This is further reinforced by the fact that these light openings and responses tend to be shapely. But if they have such shape hands, either it's a total misfit all around (in which case the winning side is famously 'the one to pass first') or we have a fit of our own. Where's our fit if we are about to bid 2NT? Put differently, while not ruled out, the absence of support or long suits in our own hand is weak statistical evidence in favour of the opponents not holding a pure minimum.

[mr1303]

Thanks for the input. Vul was game all, format MPs as stated in the topic line.

What actually happened after RHO bid 1S was partner started muttering something about how he didn't mean to bid 1D.

It felt like cheating to not raise to 3D here, and he was less than polite about my 3D raise.

[mw64ahw]

mr1303, on 2026-February-15, 23:32, said:

Thanks for the input. Vul was game all, format MPs as stated in the topic line.

What actually happened after RHO bid 1S was partner started muttering something about how he didn't mean to bid 1D.

It felt like cheating to not raise to 3D here, and he was less than polite about my 3D raise.

FYI
If playing Acol and inverted minors 1♦ can be artificial so a raise may be unwise. i.e. could be 3325 not wanting to preempt

[mr1303]

Perhaps it was unclear. LHO opened 1C, partner overcalled 1D.

[mycroft]

No exciting agreements.

---

Sorry, should have done this earlier. Been a busy week (and this week's worse). It's *always* better to use the hand display for problems like this, so that "competitive vs non-comp" and "what's the vul?" are obvious (even though the vul, at least, was very much in the title. But I've quite famously missed that before).

[mw64ahw]

mycroft, on 2026-February-16, 09:18, said:

No exciting agreements.

---

Sorry, should have done this earlier. Been a busy week (and this week's worse). It's *always* better to use the hand display for problems like this, so that "competitive vs non-comp" and "what's the vul?" are obvious (even though the vul, at least, was very much in the title. But I've quite famously missed that before).

I missed that too