[jillybean]

I know it's not a polite question to ask but, I'm interested to know what the going rate for a Club Director is?

Thanks

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-April-22, 10:54, said:

I know it's not a polite question to ask but, I'm interested to know what the going rate for a Club Director is?

No problem in answering, but I would have worded the question differently: I think I earn a lot more than I receive
I receive €40 for a simultaneous tournament, which is pretty much the basic going rate here in Italy however many tables (in my case 6-10).
I take any job seriously so for me this involves 1 hour of preparation plus 3 hours of attentive direction, half an hour of follow ups to order and store the paraphenelia and to archive/publish/check the results in the RA system plus the club system.

I could ask more for one hour of consultancy.

[jillybean]

Of course. I'm finding that a Director can put in many extra hours, depending on how much you are prepared to put in, or how much you still have to learn.

40Euro is considered compensation for 3.5 hours ?

I am aware that one of the methods of compensation is flat rate + n. n = number of tables over a minimum.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-April-22, 14:05, said:

I am aware that one of the methods of compensation is flat rate + n. n = number of tables over a minimum.

Over here it is rare to have any direct link to number of tables, although of course the (few remaining) big clubs with tens of tables will pay (and ask) more.

Of course I can also see it from other side, namely the club President, who has to decide how much he can ask each player to pay for the presence of a trained and independent non-playing Director (currently between 1 and 1.7 Euros). We face competition from a non-sanctioned club where that would be the entire entry fee during summer.

[mycroft]

I choose what I am paid, usually. Frequently in the last couple of years, it has been "the game won't exist unless I direct", and I choose where my priorities lie.

Most Calgary clubs pay fill-in directors well (but I will tell you I don't know how much right now, it's been a while); but most clubs, of course, don't pay their directors at all - because the owner's the director, and it's all part of the same "money not used to pay rent/maintenance/snacks is mine".

In the winter, politics means that I (and all other directors) are not paid at all. We do get free games (basically, I Just Don't Pay to play bridge there), and they will offer a year-end dinner reimbursement. But it's also a non-profit club, and pretty much everybody does what they can - I'm just better at directing than other things, so that's what I do.

My rule for Local Sectionals is simple: "I don't lose money versus if it was a Championship Sectional."

And yes, you will note a distinct lack of hard numbers. Some of that is because I don't know them. Back in the Martinique days, it was CDN 50 for any game (even one that didn't run), going up to IIRC 180 for 18+ tables/two sections. I can't remember what we did with the "open and novice" Friday that was "two sections", but maybe 12 tables. At CDN 7/session, also IIRC. Oh, and "you play for free, whenever you feel like showing up, in games you're not directing."

[pescetom]

mycroft, on 2025-April-23, 10:36, said:

Oh, and "you play for free, whenever you feel like showing up, in games you're not directing."

Your perk of playing for free when not directing is interesting. I don't think I am owed it, having been paid (however little) to direct. We also have three Directors, two of whom play regularly, so it would be an onerous concession. What does irk me in my club is that I have to pay the full entry fee when mentoring a beginner (or even babysitting a total beginner)... but that's a different matter.

[mycroft]

It was a perk the Martinique offered their spares, as well. "Commit to show up this one day/night, week after week, play with anyone we ask (or no-one, if not needed), don't piss off the punters; and you can play any of the other games during the week for free with whoever you want".

Yes, it meant that we had as many as two tables not paying on our big nights (out of 16 or so), but they all brought partners, and usually they weren't on the FP list... And if it was a game you would have not come to if you had had to pay, that's still a) a bigger game (sometimes a real game), and b) potentially a few bucks in the $3 penalty fund - and at least for the directors, someone to talk to if things went pear-shaped.

And it meant that I could play with the lady who just couldn't get partners (once or twice) and the person after his stroke (for 3 months or so) as well as "my" partners.

[paulg]

At our small club in the UK, we don't pay directors. It is a member-owned club and a few volunteers run the games. I think this is typical in the UK. I've never been paid for running a club game anywhere in the UK.

At one of the larger clubs in Scotland, they tend to offer free game vouchers (so a small nominal fee).

The SBU, our NBO, pays tournament directors around £50 per session. This is not particularly generous in my view, but again it is a volunteer run organisation and the events are cheap compared to similar events in England (the EBU national rates can be seen at https://www.ebu.co.u...claim-rates.pdf).

[barmar]

In the Boston area the going rate is around $100/game, and entries are around $10-12. However, our tiny club at MIT (one game/week, 4-6 tables, $5 entry except for high school and undergraduate students), pays $70 so we don't run at a deficit.

[pescetom]

paulg, on 2025-April-23, 14:20, said:

At our small club in the UK, we don't pay directors. It is a member-owned club and a few volunteers run the games. I think this is typical in the UK. I've never been paid for running a club game anywhere in the UK.

At one of the larger clubs in Scotland, they tend to offer free game vouchers (so a small nominal fee).

The SBU, our NBO, pays tournament directors around £50 per session. This is not particularly generous in my view, but again it is a volunteer run organisation and the events are cheap compared to similar events in England (the EBU national rates can be seen at https://www.ebu.co.u...claim-rates.pdf).

I find it hard to reconcile this. Both your small club and a larger one pay nothing or a free game, yet your NBO pays tournament directors?
Does this mean that your club games (even national simultaneous or similar) are not considered tournaments?
And that SBU directors are running regional level events for £50?

Here in Italy, the lowest level of club play is a training competition which is frequently directed by a player who is not a certified director. All higher levels require a non-playing Director, certified and empowered by the NBO. The lowest (but rare) level is a club tournament which is not open to other clubs. The next (and by far the most common) is a local session of a national simultaneous tournament, open to all. The next is a regional tournament (which requires a higher level of certification for TD) and the highest is a national tournament (which requires a TD certified at national level, can ask what he wants). For a complex regional level event the minimum is 80 euro plus travel expenses.
My region is 3 million people, to put that into perspective.

[jillybean]

paulg, on 2025-April-23, 14:20, said:

At our small club in the UK, we don't pay directors. It is a member-owned club and a few volunteers run the games. I think this is typical in the UK. I've never been paid for running a club game anywhere in the UK.

At one of the larger clubs in Scotland, they tend to offer free game vouchers (so a small nominal fee).

The SBU, our NBO, pays tournament directors around £50 per session. This is not particularly generous in my view, but again it is a volunteer run organisation and the events are cheap compared to similar events in England (the EBU national rates can be seen at https://www.ebu.co.u...claim-rates.pdf).

What are your card fees and where does any profit go?

[paulg]

jillybean, on 2025-April-23, 19:19, said:

What are your card fees and where does any profit go?

Our club rents a village hall for the evening to play bridge and the table money (card fees) are £2 per person. Our annual membership is £1 and we have just over 100 members. We get 7-8 tables for f2f bridge and up to 14 tables on BBO (where the cost is BB$2).

The club aims to break even as it has a little money in the bank - our accounts for the last season (PDF) appear to show a small loss but, in reality, we essentially broke even as there was some late income that missed the accounting deadline. We pay our accountants in whisky. It is a small local club.

Pre-covid we were getting 12 face-to-face tables twice a week. Now BBO income keeps the club going.

[paulg]

pescetom, on 2025-April-23, 15:45, said:

I find it hard to reconcile this. Both your small club and a larger one pay nothing or a free game, yet your NBO pays tournament directors?
Does this mean that your club games (even national simultaneous or similar) are not considered tournaments?
And that SBU directors are running regional level events for £50?

Here in Italy, the lowest level of club play is a training competition which is frequently directed by a player who is not a certified director. All higher levels require a non-playing Director, certified and empowered by the NBO. The lowest (but rare) level is a club tournament which is not open to other clubs. The next (and by far the most common) is a local session of a national simultaneous tournament, open to all. The next is a regional tournament (which requires a higher level of certification for TD) and the highest is a national tournament (which requires a TD certified at national level, can ask what he wants). For a complex regional level event the minimum is 80 euro plus travel expenses.
My region is 3 million people, to put that into perspective.

The Scottish Bridge Union, our NBO, has fewer than 5,000 active members and the country has 5.4 million people. Each region is smaller than yours.

All tournaments run at clubs, including simultaneous pairs, are normally run by playing directors who are not certified: it is hoped that they have attended the SBU Club Directors one-day training course. In the distant past heats for national events, like the National Pairs, were held at clubs and run similarly, but these days the SBU tends to hold centralised qualifying heats: these are run by the clubs, not the SBU, and they do not require a qualified TD although they will usually have an experienced non-playing director because of the event size.

Regional tournaments are run by a competent TD who is paid by the region: if they get paid then I expect it is the national rate, £50 per session. National tournaments are run by SBU Directors who are paid £50 per session: most National Directors have attended EBL training and some have EBL qualifications.

[jillybean]

Here in NA I'd say clubs will be struggling to make a profit, post covid. The availability and cost of rental space is prohibitive. We no longer have a Bridge Club in Vancouver with a dedicated space. Table money is $12-$14. Directors are paid.

Non sanctioned games are alive and growing, run by volunteers. $3 table money

[paulg]

jillybean, on 2025-April-24, 09:37, said:

Non sanctioned games are alive and growing, run by volunteers. $3 table money

The cost of sanctioned games in Scotland is not prohibitive. All players, except for the occasional guest, must be members of the SBU, which costs £12 per year, and the club pays to issue master points (£0.20 per player in the top third of the field).

It is different in England, where they have a pay to play model - so no annual membership fee but £0.45 per person per session. There are more non-sanctioned clubs in England.

[jillybean]

If I'm reading this correctly, it appears that ACBL master points are free but there is a charge of CAD$1.66 per table.

https://www.acbl.org/prices-and-fees/