[AL78]

This hand came up a couple of days ago in which the opponents have slam on but couldn't find it, mainly because the system they were playing (Benji Acol I think) meant they were at the three level before East got to show their hand:

---

Given the limitations of the system for bidding very strong hands, is there a way to find 6♦ or 6NT (could West bid 4♦ over 3NT as a slam try)? I'm guessing a strong club system would work much better here with the bidding space it provides.

[Cyberyeti]

I'm bidding a slam opposite a balanced 23 with the W hand unless partner fails to cue clubs.

That said I think it should start 2♦-3♦-4♦ and now cue bidding and W's avoidance of BW/KB and positive response will tell E he has ♦KQ and a heart card to reach 6.

[mw64ahw]

Given West has ♦ I'd temporise as over a standard 2♣ approach so
2♦-2♥
2N-3♠ SI minor
3N-4♦
4♠ odd KCs, K♠ - 6♦ all KCs Q♦
6N counting 12 tricks

In fact I had a similar hand the other day playing Acol with an experienced pickup partner and opened 2♣. Unfortunately after 2N they didn't have the 3♠ bid to start the slam try in ♣. Partner had 2 Aces and a singleton, but bid 2♦. 6N makeable.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2025-January-24, 07:39, said:

Given West has ♦ I'd temporise as over a standard 2♣ approach so
2♦-2♥
2N-3♠ SI minor
3N-4♦
4♠ odd KCs, K♠ - 6♦ all KCs Q♦
6N counting 12 tricks

In fact I had a similar hand the other day playing Acol with an experienced pickup partner and opened 2♣. Unfortunately after 2N they didn't have the 3♠ bid to start the slam try in ♣. Partner had 2 Aces and a singleton, but bid 2♦. 6N makeable.

It occurs to me going for diamonds from the start (as I did too) could be wrong, if the west hand is QJ10x, Kx, KQxxxx, x you are off if the diamonds don't break, 6♠ only requires one of the suits to break

Similarly from W's pov, partner could have AQx, KQJx, Axxx, Ax which is 12 in NT or ♦ but 13 in hearts

[P_Marlowe]

AL78, on 2025-January-24, 05:49, said:

This hand came up a couple of days ago in which the opponents have slam on but couldn't find it, mainly because the system they were playing (Benji Acol I think) meant they were at the three level before East got to show their hand:

---

Given the limitations of the system for bidding very strong hands, is there a way to find 6♦ or 6NT (could West bid 4♦ over 3NT as a slam try)? I'm guessing a strong club system would work much better here with the bidding space it provides.

The auction developed brilliantly, ... 3NT is just garbage, opener sees a 9-10 card fit and 31+HCP,
what is stopping him from showing the fit? (*)
3NT basically says, I happen to hold a shortage in diamonds, 4441 (or 5431 ) come to mind, and you bid 3NT, and
this ends the auction, and responder without a sure fit makes a sensible decision by passing it out.
System has nothing to do with it.

(*) I dont understand the alert of 3D nat. or AK? Does this means, 3D could be bid on AK alone? If this is an option,
I would say this is not playable, either go with natural suits or with controls.

[jillybean]

AL78, on 2025-January-24, 05:49, said:

I'm guessing a strong club system would work much better here with the bidding space it provides.

Come and play Precision with me.
2♦ 3♦ 3nt is an awful start to a strong auction. I obviously don't play Benji Acol but isn't Benji 2♦ 25+, Benji 2♣ 23-24?
Anyway, west can move over any strong definition of 2D, but change the system!

[AL78]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-January-24, 09:27, said:

(*) I dont understand the alert of 3D nat. or AK? Does this means, 3D could be bid on AK alone? If this is an option,
I would say this is not playable, either go with natural suits or with controls.

It is natural and wasn't alerted at the table, I just put it in the auction in order to give full details of what the bids show. A positive response means an A and a K or 8+ HCP.

[AL78]

jillybean, on 2025-January-24, 09:40, said:

Come and play Precision with me.

I've never played a strong club system and would have no-one to play it with anyway.

[mycroft]

Precision: It's beautiful if the opponents keep quiet with their 9-card spade fit. 1♣-1♥; 2NT-3♠; 3NT-4♦; 4♠-6♦? 5♣ "Last Train"? whatever, 6♦ unless we find the spade void and decide to try NT. The symmetric relay people are in better shape (sorry), so will get to 6NT.

Benji Acol or American style, 2m-3♦. I assume that's not random 8 with quacks and a 9-fifth suit? 3NT shows a distinct lack of imagination. Sure, if it shows 22-24 balanced, passing with 9-anna-void, and a good suit even for 3♦, also shows a distinct lack of imagination (but if 4♦ might be passed by partner, I'm not sure what to do, except maybe 6♦ punt). If it specifically implies bad diamonds, well, KQxxxx might still be enough.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-January-24, 09:40, said:

Come and play Precision with me.

How does Precision go after my 2♠ interference showing 5+ card spades and a 4 card minor and how does it differ from the same auction but with a minimum 1♣?
Sure it can be made to work, but our 22-23 "balanced" opening still looks Precise.

[pescetom]

We would start with 2♣ here and this forces West to put all his eggs in one basket by showing the diamonds (after 1NT we would Stayman to keep the spades door open). So it might well go:

________ 2♣ (strong)
2♠(a suit) - 2NT (bid it in transfer)
3♣ (6+♦ >=KQ) - 3♦ (fix)
3♥ - 3♠
3N (♠) - 4♣
4♠ - 5♣ (♣, odd keycards)
5♠ - 6N
P

[mikeh]

Our homegrown methods

2C 2D
2H 3C
3N 4D
4S 5H
6C 6D



2C. Normal 2/1 big opening

2D. Gf, promises an ace or king, says nothing else other than denying certain specific hand types

2N. Balanced 22-23, can be super 21

3C. Modified puppet stayman

3N. 4 spades, denies hearts (also denies 5 spades)

4D. Natural slam try, 5+ diamonds, usually 3+ hearts

4S. Shows ok hand for diamonds, cue bid, bypassing hearts denies heart control

5H. Cuebid. Will promise the ace since it forces to slam opposite a denial of a heart control, and mp lies mild or better grand slam interest

6C. Cuebid

6D. Nothing extra.



It’s possible for west to simply bid 6D over 4S. It’s very difficult to construct a hand lacking a heart control but with real diamond support that doesn’t offer a reasonable play for small slam and basically impossible for grand to be likely. AKQx xx Axx AKQx works so west probably shouldn’t give up


Playing in my other, less system-heavy, partnership:

2C 2D
2N 3C
3S 4D
5C 5H
5S 6D


2D gf, waiting. We don’t show a positive suit response with complex hands

2N. Balanced 22-23. Could be super 21

3C regular stayman

3S 4+ spades, denies 4H
4D natural, forcing, implies heart length
5C shows a liking for diamonds and 3 keycards
5H cuebid
5S cuebid


6D. Conclusion.