[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2024-November-25, 10:30, said:

Here's the hand and my, somewhat forced, auction.

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At my table, the auction was not tortured; 1♥ 2nt 3nt 6♥

In standard J2NT, I might have bid 3♥ just because I hate bidding 4M with two keycards. But I could be wrong about that. Anyway, you'd get to the same place. Too bad it wasn't possible to find the safer spade fit but it worked out.

[pescetom]

And so for us it would have gone:

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We know she holds a minor Ace but not which, so we risk losing a diamond as well as the lesser risk of the trump Queen, but still well worth a try.

[jillybean]

I like the 2♣ start, and the 3nt showing spade control after 3S showing spade control.
I'd get a little lost with 4nt

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2024-November-25, 11:31, said:

I like the 2♣ start, and the 3nt showing spade control after 3S showing spade control.
I'd get a little lost with 4nt

The 2♣ start is very flexible and it's easy to extend with semi-artificial followups to exchange strength information and so on... it also keeps the 2♦ game force clean as a natural and sound 5 card suit.

3NT showing reciprocal spade control is a nice twist, but also a costly feature of our system in terms of mistakes by disattentive players as it is very infrequent and we do not play 4NT or 5NT with the same meaning (unlike older style Italian control-bidding).

How get lost? 4NT Turbo is blissfully simple (at least in this basic version), you bid it with an even number of keycards and you skip it without. It's part of the control-bid sequence and it does not interrupt it, effectively a biddable "control" nestling between the 4 and 5 levels. You don't have any decisions to make, except perhaps whether to proceed beyond game.

[mike777]

Great problem hand.
So many response options.
Probably best to start by showing my void so;
1H-3S!
3NT!-4C!
4D(ya)-4S!
5D!-6H
3S=hearts with void somewhere
3NT=where
4C=clubs
4S=exclusion
5D= 2 with no QH or a Xtra length

[mikeh]

jdiana, on 2024-November-25, 10:39, said:

In standard J2NT, I might have bid 3♥ just because I hate bidding 4M with two keycards. But I could be wrong about that. Anyway, you'd get to the same place. Too bad it wasn't possible to find the safer spade fit but it worked out.

Safer spade fit? I think not, unless you have a way of making north declarer. Try 6S on a diamond lead….yes, you survive this time but you’re much more likely to fail in 6S than in 6H

[Cyberyeti]

We bid either 1♥-4♣-4N-6♥ (voidwood, 2 without)

or more likely:

1♥-2♠ (one suited rock crusher or fit GF)
3♣ (nat-ish)-3♥ (fit)
3♠(cue) - 4♣(cue)
4♦(cue) -

and now it's going to be on a guess, I suspect we get to 6 relying on finding the ♥Q if partner has the wrong ace, we know he has ♠A, unsure which the other is.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-November-25, 12:41, said:

and now it's going to be on a guess, I suspect we get to 6 relying on finding the ♥Q if partner has the wrong ace, we know he has ♠A, unsure which the other is.

Our dilemma is similar: in the actual situation we have no way of disambiguating the minor Ace, even with another level of control-bidding which would reveal the ♥Q if present, so basically it is on a guess (but with very reasonable probability, even at MP).