[Ranmit]

MPs, playing 2/1 system.

What would you bid, and what's your thinking?

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(Jump bids: 3H, 3d are weak).

[Cyberyeti]

2♥ - I want to see if partner raises initially (3♥ would be fit for us, so I could bid that, but not sure if I actually would with such a weak suit)

[mw64ahw]

I play 2♦ as ♥. I guess others will bid 2♥ if forcing rather than a negative free bid.

Correction: Talking rubbish above. I X to show ♥ or 11+, but this is assuming an Unbalanced ♦ expecting partner to support with 3+. Otherwise 2♥ which is forcing. I am looking for a slam from the outset.

[pescetom]

[Some rubbish deleted, I too misread the auction].

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2024-November-11, 16:06, said:

I play 2♦ as ♥. I guess others will bid 2♥ if forcing rather a negative free bid

I play 2♦ as an inverted raise not FG, but am unlikely to find a 6-3 heart fit if I do that

[mikeh]

2H is obvious. Those who espouse idiosyncratic methods are showing off how smart they (think) they are, not helping the OP. The OP says they’re playing 2/1 with 1D being 3+ (presumably only if 4=4=3=2 but maybe also with 3433/4333 and good diamonds, weak clubs). In any event there is zero reason to suppose that they play 2D as a transfer or that they play negative free bids.

He’s presumably looking for guidance within the constraints of his announced methods yet the same people always respond to these requests for help with their private, non-standard methods. Just what help do these posters think they’re giving?

In fairness, I quite often provide information on how my methods would work but I try to do so only having addressed the OP issue…and the idea is to show to readers that it is possible, with significant work by a partnership, to ‘solve’ some of the problems that can arise n a basic method.

Here, our choices are some diamond raise…probably a cuebid but whether 2S or 3S isn’t obvious….or showing the hearts. I opt for hearts, because raising diamonds loses hearts…any subsequent bidding of hearts by either partner does not show heart length nor suggest a trump suit…such bids will either be probes for notrump or (more likely but it depends on how the auction has gone) cuebids.

It’s obvious that we may belong in hearts…heck we may have more hearts between us than diamonds. Also, if we belong in a high level diamond contract, we’d like to have some clue as to whether partner has any heart length…indeed, if he raises hearts we have an easy (if there’s room….there is good reason to expect a contested auction) exclusion. I don’t expect to be able to use it, but why not provide for it at this stage?

These are fun hands, although they can be very frustrating. It’s hands like these where one sees a travelling score (ok, they don’t exist anymore) littered with 1660…half for NS and half for EW.

So my thinking, to the extent that it’s more than what I’ve written above, is that this auction could get to the 5 level very quickly. I’ll never be able to show this but by bidding hearts then diamonds I’ll at least hint at my (likely) playing strength. Of course, maybe partner has KQxx x xxxx AKJx and we’ll have a very tame auction.

[Ranmit]

Thanks for your responses!

I see 2H and 2S as responses, depending on whether 2H is forcing or not (FWIW, we play 2H as forcing, so I agree that should have been the bid, but my partner forgot that it was forcing and bid 2S here).

Now how would you and your partner continue the auction? If you bid 2S, S bids 3S. If you bid 2H (or 2d transfer), how would you continue if S bids a)2S, b) 3S?

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[jillybean]

2H keep it simple
West will raise hearts…
Tbc

[mikeh]

Once east bids 2S EW cannot,logically, find hearts. I know some inexperienced players think that the cuebid says only ‘I have a strong hand, details to follow’ but that is decidedly not 2/1 as it’s usually played. Nor is 2H non forcing. I know some 2/1 players who would play 2H as gf, but they’re a (tiny) minority. It’s normal to play 2H as a one round force, using a delayed cuebid, if appropriate, to signal game force, or better, intentions.

The direct cue is usually played as a strong raise in diamonds, and later heart bids are either probes for notrump or cue bids in search of a diamond slam.

West should raise 2H to 3H…2H wasforcing one round. Now east has a choice of riches but I’d bid 5C exclusionkeycard if the system included exclusion. I suspect it didn’t, given the confusion over the initial response. Then I’d bid 3S to see if I can get any interest from partner.

Partner has an 8nreresting valuation problem. He’s dead minimum but he has good hearts and two side aces opposite a slam try by partner. If east had no slam interest, he’d have bid 4H rather than 3S.

Personally, I love bidding slams and I really like good trump and side aces, so I’d cooperate via 4C, almost certainly propelling us to a borderline (being generous) 6H.

[Ranmit]

mikeh, on 2024-November-11, 20:27, said:

Once east bids 2S EW cannot,logically, find hearts. I know some inexperienced players think that the cuebid says only ‘I have a strong hand, details to follow’ but that is decidedly not 2/1 as it’s usually played. Nor is 2H non forcing. I know some 2/1 players who would play 2H as gf, but they’re a (tiny) minority. It’s normal to play 2H as a one round force, using a delayed cuebid, if appropriate, to signal game force, or better, intentions.

The direct cue is usually played as a strong raise in diamonds, and later heart bids are either probes for notrump or cue bids in search of a diamond slam.

Makes perfect sense!

mikeh, on 2024-November-11, 20:27, said:

West should raise 2H to 3H…2H wasforcing one round. Now east has a choice of riches but I’d bid 5C exclusionkeycard if the system included exclusion. I suspect it didn’t, given the confusion over the initial response. Then I’d bid 3S to see if I can get any interest from partner.

But S bids 3S, preventing W from showing Hrt support (unless he is willing to go to 4H with a mimimum, given partner's 2H should promise only 10+ pts and not GF)?

[mikeh]

 Ranmit, on 2024-November-11, 20:52, said:

Makes perfect sense!


But S bids 3S, preventing W from showing Hrt support (unless he is willing to go to 4H with a mimimum, given partner's 2H should promise only 10+ pts and not GF)?

If south bids 3S, west’s hand grows up. Ask yourself this: how many spade losers does our side have, given that I hold Axxx and that partner has at least five hearts?

I noted above that west may hold a high card minimum but it’s a very nice minimum, with K10xx support and two side aces.

One of the key steps on the path to becoming a good player is to learn to let the auction, including the opponents’ bidding, influence your valuation of your hand. Axxx in spades, when both opps are bidding the suit, is a wonderful holding….so long as partner has adequate trump, which he almost surely has for his 2H bid. Compare Axxx to KQxx. KQxx would usually, absent clues from the bidding, be seen as a stronger holding….but you have a spade loser if partner has a stiff spade! Axxx is ‘weaker’ but means you have no spade loser…so…in terms of contracting for 10 tricks, which is the better holding?