[jillybean]

2nd seat, I will force a pass on you,

---

now you can bid.

[mikeh]

4S. May not be the best contract but I’m not passing and RHO’s silence suggests partner has club length plus, hopefully, 6+ spades…so there is little point in guessing a red suit to bid. It’d be nice if we could make a responsive double, but the rules don’t allow it, and passing is way too conservative for me (and I’m generally viewed as too conservative).

If RHO doubles, I’ll apologize

Btw, partner will know I’m not bidding on strength…a good raise bids 4C.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

your options are either Pass or 4S.
Introducing a new suit should show a spade fit, due to the pass in 2nd seat, and I am fully behind passing
this one in 2nd seat, no need to force me to pass.
If you have 3 spades and a club singleton, you would raise, now you have 1 spade / 1 club less, ...
raise as well, I think with IMP scoring this is easier, with MP scoring you just need to guess right.

[DavidKok]

That pass last round worked out marvellously

4♠, everything else is worse.

[mw64ahw]

A tricky one.
For me 3♠ says 12-17 6+ or a very strong 5-card suit.

Given the initial passed hand I would guess towards the top end of the range. As East is also a passed hand 4♠ might work, but I prefer 4♥ as an alternative place to play.

Also, I have a bid to open as East, so would get in there first.

[jillybean]

I am going to find out a little more about this hand today, then I will revel the rest of the hand.( I didn’t play it.)
In the meantime, who opens East, please explain.

[Tramticket]

I seem to be West. And I over called 3S.

Maybe I am East?

All a bit confusing.

[nullve]

---

Without thinking: Pass

After thinking about why North didn't raise: Pass

[jillybean]

Tramticket, on 2024-July-24, 15:25, said:

I seem to be West. And I over called 3S.

Maybe I am East?

All a bit confusing.

You are East. Second seat

[jillybean]

---

Here's the full hand.

It was played in:
4♦E-1
6♥E-1
4♣S-1
3♠W=
3♦E+3

[shyams]

If I were West, I would bid 3NT not 3♠.

[pescetom]

If I were West, I would not bid 3NT or 3♠.

[mw64ahw]

X looks better given the takeout shape and 18hcp.East then has an easy bid of 4♥.
Alternatively you have agreement where 4N/5♣ indicates enough for 5R with a slant towards ♦ which can then be upgraded to a small slam on West's strength.

I'm not quite sure how I would progress the auction after an East opening of 2♥ and a 3♣ overcall unless X asks for shape to find the slam as again 4♥ looks straightforward.

Would any Souths open 1♣ rather than 3♣?

[pescetom]

I would double, and now I suspect Davidkok has better agreements than we do on how to proceed. If East jump bids diamonds the slam looks reasonable, if she takes a view and bids hearts we should stop in 5. If she chickens out with 3♦ then I would join you in 3NT.

[jdiana]

I'm surprised no one played it in 3NT. Right or wrong, I would have bid 3NT as West. But even starting with a double, 3NT and 4H seem like logical landing spots.

[DavidKok]

 pescetom, on 2024-July-26, 09:29, said:

I would double, and now I suspect Davidkok has better agreements than we do on how to proceed. If East jump bids diamonds the slam looks reasonable, if she takes a view and bids hearts we should stop in 5. If she chickens out with 3♦ then I would join you in 3NT.

For what it's worth, I don't have special agreements here. I know of special agreements to use here but I've never played them. The main reason being that while some cool artificial stuff works over (3♣)-X, it does not work (as well) over (3♦)-X. So you have to learn two systems, which is a lot of effort for a rare auction, and you'll still be guessing a good amount of the time regardless.

I lean towards 3♠ with the West hand. All three of X, 3♠ and 3NT are reasonable, but in general I think we need too much help for 3NT to be good with only a single positional club stopper, and with a double there's a chance I won't get to introduce spades later.
If you have the agreement that X-then-3NT is more flexible, rather than stronger, than a direct 3NT that can help here, but under the agreement above this would commit you to concealing the spades (X-then-correcting-3♥-to-3♠ shows ♠+♦ in this agreement), which I don't like. I really like bidding spades when I have them.
Under the common agreement that X-then-3♠ shows a hand too strong for a direct 3♠ it might well work - it's an overbid, but we gain if partner jumps in a red suit.

Lastly I am a fan of opening the East hand with 2♥, intending to treat it as a weak red 5-5. It's not a great option, but pass is also not great. There's a case for opening 2♦ instead, especially at MPs.

[shyams]

 shyams, on 2024-July-26, 08:59, said:

If I were West, I would bid 3NT not 3♠.

I had considered a double, but my partnership does not have a specialised follow-up structure after a dbl of 3X or higher preempt.

Suppose I double and partner bids 3♥. Is my hand good enough to raise? No, I cannot be sure partner has a 5-card suit. If I bid 3NT over partner's 3H, does it show 18 HCP or maybe 20+? I think East will expect 20+ HCPs for such a sequence.

Others may have better structures to counter the preempt, I don't. So I am quite comfortable to bid 3NT.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the hand is way to strong for a simple 3S.
I have no idea, what I would choose X or 3NT, but either bid is better than 3S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

With this hand causing problems for the experts, it's no wonder these players were struggling.

David, is your 2♥ weak 5-5 red systematically?
And, please explain your rationale for opening 2♦.