BBO Discussion Forums: no announcements? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

no announcements?

#1 User is offline   mlbarton 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 2015-May-13

Posted 2023-November-28, 17:56

A Director in a Speedball game adjusted against us because I Announced our 1NT range instead of Alerting it. When I objected I was told there are no Announcements in BBO, only Alerts. Is this true? How would I have known that?


Thanks
0

#2 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 969
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2023-November-28, 19:39

View Postmlbarton, on 2023-November-28, 17:56, said:

A Director in a Speedball game adjusted against us because I Announced our 1NT range instead of Alerting it. When I objected I was told there are no Announcements in BBO, only Alerts. Is this true? How would I have known that?

Start with this.
0

#3 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,542
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2023-November-28, 20:15

This is why I don't play online. Ask the director which law was violated, and how the opponents were damaged.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
1

#4 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 969
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2023-November-29, 07:21

View Postblackshoe, on 2023-November-28, 20:15, said:

This is why I don't play online. Ask the director which law was violated, and how the opponents were damaged.

Imagine playing f2f with a rotatable triangular screen which allows the bidder to share a screen side with both opponents. This is effectively what BBO does.
1

#5 User is online   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,042
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2023-November-29, 08:28

Assuming that this is an ACBL game or run by an ACBL VACB, then the Conditions of Contest for online play is Appendix O of the Conditions of Contest (PDF).

Paragraph 2 says "Alerts: Alerts (including announcements) are made by the player making the call. An alerted call should be accompanied by an explanation. Stating the common or popular name of the convention is not sufficient. You are encouraged to explain calls even if those calls do not require alerts. Any call that would be alerted after the auction in live bridge should be alerted at the time of the call."
I expect the number of ACBL players who have read this can be counted on one hand and most of them probably contribute to this forum :)

But if you think about the purpose of announcements (and alerts) it is to draw your opponents' attention to the information and not to assist partner: so it makes sense that announcements are made privately, using the Alert mechanism, rather than through chat to the entire table.

I am surprised that a director would make an adjustment for a first offence and would expect them to issue a polite warning. However Speedball directors are always under more time pressure than the players and perhaps you just caught one at a bad time.

Paul
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
1

#6 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,542
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2023-November-29, 09:23

If I found myself being "caught at a bad time" more than about once a year, I would quit directing.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
1

#7 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,023
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2023-November-29, 10:45

Unfortunately, the information in the OP is unclear. How did you "Announce"?

  • Did you do it as partner (as you would FtF)? As has been made clear, don't do that.
  • Did you do that as the bidder, but to the table, rather than in the explanation box? As has been made clear, don't do that.
  • If the director meant "you just Alert your 1NT, and only explain if they click on the bid", then "are you sure?" I've only been 1-"12-14"-NT ing for the last 20 years, in games up to and including District 18 GNT finals...


Should this trigger an adjustment? Probably not (especially if it was the near-universal "15-17"), but Speedball games (and ACBL BBO-club games, and VACB games) have been running for years - so much so that we're facing a spate of self-Alerts in the FtF clubs (which have a similar problem).

You also didn't say what the adjustment was or why; could be a procedural penalty, could be a "if there's a breach of the alerting regulations, assign A+/A-" regulation, could be... Again, we don't know.

I would argue that partner telling the entire table "yeah, I remember we play a weak NT" is probably grounds for something - in a way that "I remember we, like *99+% of the rest of the tables*, play a strong NT" really isn't, all arguments of "so, the people who play 'standard' can get away with disclosure you'd penalize us for, because we play 'weird'?" aside. Yes, there are situations where "If you play the normal stuff, there are violations of procedure that are less of a problem. If you play unusual things, you have a higher responsibility to get disclosure correct. Yes, you shouldn't have to, but that's the way it is." (But I bet that didn't happen in the OP)
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#8 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,101
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2023-November-29, 15:44

View PostGilithin, on 2023-November-29, 07:21, said:

Imagine playing f2f with a rotatable triangular screen which allows the bidder to share a screen side with both opponents.

I guess a rotatable solid triangle would do the job, although a rotatable Y shape or a stationary solid cylinder seem more practical and intuitive to me :)
1

#9 User is online   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,042
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2023-November-30, 03:58

View Postblackshoe, on 2023-November-29, 09:23, said:

If I found myself being "caught at a bad time" more than about once a year, I would quit directing.

Have you directed many online tournaments?

It is a very different experience from directing F2F events.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#10 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,055
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UK

Posted 2023-November-30, 04:54

View PostGilithin, on 2023-November-29, 07:21, said:

Imagine playing f2f with a rotatable triangular screen which allows the bidder to share a screen side with both opponents. This is effectively what BBO does.

Ha-ha, imagine holographic flying cards in four dimensions that can be read from behind if bidder's partner lend his x-ray glasses to the opponents, and then you just apply IRL regulations. Easy-peasy.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#11 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,542
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2023-November-30, 10:18

View Postpaulg, on 2023-November-30, 03:58, said:

Have you directed many online tournaments?

It is a very different experience from directing F2F events.

Oh, I get that. I just think if you're going to direct you can't let your emotions get the better of you.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
0

#12 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 21,383
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2023-December-06, 12:29

View Postmlbarton, on 2023-November-28, 17:56, said:

A Director in a Speedball game adjusted against us because I Announced our 1NT range instead of Alerting it. When I objected I was told there are no Announcements in BBO, only Alerts. Is this true? How would I have known that?

You can announce by typing in the Explanation field without clicking the "Alert" button. The only difference is whether a red border is put around the bid in the bidding diagram.

I'm not sure why a director would penalize you for doing this.

#13 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,101
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2023-December-06, 16:52

View Postbarmar, on 2023-December-06, 12:29, said:

You can announce by typing in the Explanation field without clicking the "Alert" button. The only difference is whether a red border is put around the bid in the bidding diagram.


Maybe BBO could do more to make this known, as it is not obvious and the player providing the Explanation has no way of verifying what others see or not.

Given the huge and perpetually unresolved problem of the yellow box battle, the last thing that comes to mind is that an opponent actually receives an explanation even without Alert.
0

#14 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,664
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2023-December-06, 17:43

View Postbarmar, on 2023-December-06, 12:29, said:

I'm not sure why a director would penalize you for doing this.

I assumed the OP 'announced' by typing it into the open chat for everyone including partner to see, which I've seen players unfamiliar with self alerts do.
0

#15 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,485
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2023-December-06, 22:11

An adjustment for announcing a NT range?
I hope the "Director" explained how the NOS were damaged.

I'm beginning to believe that this is game has gone to the dogs.
0

#16 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 969
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2023-December-06, 23:28

View Postjillybean, on 2023-December-06, 22:11, said:

An adjustment for announcing a NT range?
I hope the "Director" explained how the NOS were damaged.

I'm beginning to believe that this is game has gone to the dogs.

He plays a Weak NT in the ACBL. There is unfortunately a sizeable portion of American players who equate that more or less to cheating. I am confident that if it had been a "15-17" announcement, there would not have been an adjustment.
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users