[jillybean]

---

[apollo1201]

A bit weak for 4NT, partner and RHO have a bunch of hearts.

You might survive a 4C bid, hoping it is the right one you picked. But some play 4m ad m+H.

I think 3NT is more useful as natural here than showing a not too strong minor 2-suiter.

And it is unlikely, although not completely hopeless, that partner can contribute sth useful in S to help our half stopper.

And we’re red. Was it MP or IMPs?

I think I have to pass - after all, it is not a full worth 15 HCP hand and we’re scr*** in the auction. But not too confident it is the winning call.

[TylerE]

If I'm bidding (and I'm not) I'm bidding 4D, not 4C, because if we're bidding at all we're bidding 5m over 4♠, right? Can't correct ♦ to ♣, and the suit quality difference while there isn't vast. If the suits were Qxxxx AKQJx this would be a different conversation.

Really at these colors though, just...no. We could easily beat 3S 2 or 3 tricks while not being able to make squat. On a good day, partner leads their stiff club
or doubleton club and we're taking like 8 tricks off the top with a few ruffs.

If I was going to take a stab at anything (and again, I'm not), well, it's a lot easier to take 9 tricks than 11, and parter is allowed to hold ♠Jxx or stiff K or whatever. It's probably not making, and if it's not making it's probably REALLY not making (like their 3S, actually...) but it's MP. -200 and -800 could easily score the same number of matchpoints. -100 might even.

[LBengtsson]

Here's a agreement I made up from studying the fix, I would not recommend it though. lol

3NT minors
4♣/4♦/4♥/4♠ one suited hands
4NT big minors

X is a relay (!) Partner bids 3NT. If you want to play there you pass (!) The strong hand is on the table [I know it is garbage so no comments please ]

After partner bids 3NT, you bid 4♣ for ♣/♥, 4♦ for ♦/♥, 4♥ for ♥/♠ and 4♠ for ♠ and a minor two suited hands.

You saw it first here: the Bengtsson Convention

[mikeh]

3N is to play. Too valuable to give up. For me, a slow pass seems about right…a desire to bid but no good call


Just kidding

Pass, hopefully in tempo

I suspect one of the minors will play well, but I don’t know which and the hand is wrong, imo, for 4N

[TylerE]

It's really the colors that kill it. Red vs White you're really trying to thread the needle. -100 (e.g. NV x-1) may well be a great score if par is -110 or -140 or whatever.

It's really really hard for -200 to do well at MP, unless it's 2M+3m, because you're not beating any score that's likely to occur at another table.

[jillybean]

I am surprised that people want 3NT as natural, opponents have preempted and raised a major and I am struggling to picture a hand that wants to play in 3NT

[Stephen Tu]

jillybean, on 2023-March-21, 22:55, said:

I am surprised that people want 3NT as natural, opponents have preempted and raised a major and I am struggling to picture a hand that wants to play in 3NT

Have you seen the suits and hands people preempt on at favorable these days? South could have a triple stopper and a strong hand. Or Axx and be able to hold up and prevail if can keep west off lead, opener may not have a side entry. Or a stopper and a long suit source of tricks, might have to gamble sometimes on partner providing some useful help for the ninth trick.

[helene_t]

IMHO 3NT is always natural unless
- we have a slower route available in the unlikely event that we want to play 3NT (this applies in some scenarios where opps double or redouble), OR
- a natural 3NT is completely impossible. This applied in some scenarios where we are a passed hand or opps are in a GF or we have preempted ourselves, OR
- some convention such as serious/frivolous 3NT applies

Anyway, I think I agree with pass although it wouldn't surprise me too much if it is wrong and that 3NT or 4NT has higher expected value.

If partner balances with 4♥ (not completely impossible, they should have a weak hand with 7+ hearts and we have agreed to play a direct 4♥ as stronger than 3♥) I will pass again. If partner balances with dbl it is penalty. If partner balances with 3NT it is a weak two-suiter (should be 6-5 I think) and probably 5m is enough.

[Cyberyeti]

TylerE, on 2023-March-21, 13:21, said:

If I'm bidding (and I'm not) I'm bidding 4D, not 4C, because if we're bidding at all we're bidding 5m over 4♠, right? Can't correct ♦ to ♣, and the suit quality difference while there isn't vast. If the suits were Qxxxx AKQJx this would be a different conversation.

Really at these colors though, just...no. We could easily beat 3S 2 or 3 tricks while not being able to make squat. On a good day, partner leads their stiff club
or doubleton club and we're taking like 8 tricks off the top with a few ruffs.

If I was going to take a stab at anything (and again, I'm not), well, it's a lot easier to take 9 tricks than 11, and parter is allowed to hold ♠Jxx or stiff K or whatever. It's probably not making, and if it's not making it's probably REALLY not making (like their 3S, actually...) but it's MP. -200 and -800 could easily score the same number of matchpoints. -100 might even.

You can't correct diamonds to clubs, but you could bid it like a 2146 and bid 4N second time.

I agree with everybody pass is right, but the fact that this has been posted indicates it's not going to work

[jillybean]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-March-22, 04:19, said:

I agree with everybody pass is right, but the fact that this has been posted indicates it's not going to work

It worked very well, but I was W.

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North/South were discussing what a 3NT bid would show here, I play disciplined weak2's so 3NT for the minors makes sense to me.

[DavidKok]

I think 3NT should be to play and this hand should pass. Sometimes they get you. 4♠ (GF both minors) is an aggressive alternative, perhaps worth considering if we have been informed that the opponents play disciplined preempts (although I would still pass).
I play Nonleaping Michaels on this auction.
I would have raised to 4 opposite a disciplined weak two.

[blackshoe]

jillybean, on 2023-March-22, 12:24, said:

North/South were discussing what a 3NT bid would show here, I play disciplined weak2's so 3NT for the minors makes sense to me.

It may make sense but right now it's making my brain itch.

[jillybean]

blackshoe, on 2023-March-22, 15:38, said:

It may make sense but right now it's making my brain itch.

Haha, I love the expression.
Have I not expressed it clearly or do you simply think that 3NT to show South's hand is crazy?

[smerriman]

With 4NT available if you wanted to play in a minor, I don't think you need a second bid specifically designed to stop on a dime of 4m. 4m is the wrong place to play if you're making 11 tricks, wrong most of the time that you're making 9 tricks, wrong any time it pushes them into a making game..

[jillybean]

I understand that. Mistakenly, I did not envisage a natural 3NT in this situation so why use 4NT?
3NT leaves room for partner to cue the opponents Major/ other Major, we may have a minor slam?

The subsequent replies make it clear that I do want a natural 3NT bid here, end of brain itch.

[the hog]

3NT is obviously natural and to play. I pass this hand.
You can't imagine a hand that wants to bid 3NT naturally?
Kx Ax AKQJxxx Kx

[jillybean]

the hog, on 2023-March-23, 00:54, said:

3NT is obviously natural and to play. I pass this hand.
You can't imagine a hand that wants to bid 3NT naturally?
Kx Ax AKQJxxx Kx

Do you want to stop in 3NT?

[jillybean]

I guess being safe, you do want to stop in a makeable contract rather than a pinpoint landing on 6♦
Boring, but ok

[the hog]

"Do you want to stop in 3NT?"
If 3NT is making and 6 minor is not, of course I do.