[AL78]

MPs, playing Acol, weak NT, 1st seat:

Part 1

NS vuln

East
♠KQT8
♥A9653
♦4
♣J98

Do you open?

[DavidKok]

No, I would pass in that system. I consider this an absolute minimum opening in a 5cM system with a strong NT. But in a 4cM weak NT system a 1♥ opening not only doesn't paint the whole picture of our hand (the fact that partner might bid something other than a raise with 3-card support makes this hand much more risky), also if the auction gets competitive partner will play us for extra shape or a strong NT, and while we technically have extra shape we don't have the playing strength partner might be looking for. Plus, with both majors it's not very likely that we can't enter the auction on later rounds. We only really get punished if the opponents have a quick auction to, say, 4♦ before it comes back to us.

I hate passing with shape hands but I feel like a line should be drawn somewhere, and I think Acol weak NT doesn't support opening light the way I prefer. Or I'm just completely wrong on the bidding system and style, in which case I would open. I love to open hands like this and get the first shot in, but I feel we'd be stuck for a rebid over partner's 2m, or get caught speeding if the auction gets competitive.

[Cyberyeti]

I would open, we open these hands if rule of 19 and no particular red flags.

[mw64ahw]

I open this hand on 1 of my 4/5 criteria. Why give the opponents an easy ride?
After that 3 opportunities to find a fit or NT.
If I get a 2♦ response then I'll rebid ♥ despite the weak suit

[AL78]

I decided to pass because I didn't like the idea of rebidding an anaemic heart suit after a likely 2m response although I think it is very close. I passed and the auction proceeded as follows:

---

What do you do now?

[mw64ahw]

AL78, on 2023-January-06, 07:58, said:

I decided to pass because I didn't like the idea of rebidding an anaemic heart suit after a likely 2m response although I think it is very close. I passed and the auction proceeded as follows:

---

What do you do now?

Ask what style of ACOL 3♦ this is?

[DavidKok]

Regardless of what 3♦ is I don't think you can do anything.

[AL78]

mw64ahw had the right answer, ask the opponents how they play 3♦ here and is something I didn't consider doing as I have never encountered it meaning anything other than game forcing, maybe some slam interest. I passed and proceeded to get a joint bottom as it got passed out, we took it one down but we have 4M on. The full deal:

---

Well done to those who would have opened on my hand. Three out of the other five East's must have opened as they found a major suit game, and one NS pair overbid to 5♦X-3.

[DavidKok]

West could have taken action over 1NT (I would have).

[Cyberyeti]

Is 3♦ weak not alertable as "natural but potentially unexpected meaning"?

Also did your partner not have an astro or similar, we'd overcall 2♦(spades and another) and get to 4♠ that way even if I didn't open

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-January-06, 09:13, said:

Is 3♦ weak not alertable as "natural but potentially unexpected meaning"?

Also did your partner not have an astro or similar, we'd overcall 2♦(spades and another) and get to 4♠ that way even if I didn't open

No, we were playing Landy. The problem with two suited defences to 1NT is that whichever one you pick, you will soon pick up hands where you wish you were playing another.

I did make a polite comment to South that maybe she could have alerted the 3♦ on the basis that it is an unusual agreement. Her response was that they had always played it as weak and it has never occurred to them it could be played any other way (i.e. kind of the way I was thinking).

[apollo1201]

DavidKok, on 2023-January-06, 09:12, said:

West could have taken action over 1NT (I would have).

Or balance!!!

[mikeh]

AL78, on 2023-January-06, 09:28, said:

No, we were playing Landy. The problem with two suited defences to 1NT is that whichever one you pick, you will soon pick up hands where you wish you were playing another.

I did make a polite comment to South that maybe she could have alerted the 3♦ on the basis that it is an unusual agreement. Her response was that they had always played it as weak and it has never occurred to them it could be played any other way (i.e. kind of the way I was thinking).

The problem with playing Landy is that you are unable to bid any two suiter other than the majors, which is unplayable in a serious game

Moreover, while I don’t play this (pun unintentional) DONT allows you to bid every two suiter….any bid of 2C through 2H shows the bid suit and a higher one.

However, when one has a short major, the odds are that the opps can and will bid that suit, so DONT isn’t popular in expert circles because the 2C overcall doesn’t do much to disturb their bidding.

As for what to do….I personally wouldn’t bid with the west hand. My defence to weak notrump openings doesn’t allow this to be described…I play very differently over strong or weak notrump bids.

However, I’d always ask about 3D, unless I were very familiar with the methods my opps use. Plus, at least in NA, their CC should show what it means. Then I’d double 3D.

Btw, I wouldn’t open. Make it Axxxx KQ10x x Jxx and I’d open 1S, since I have no rebid problem. But having opened 1H, I have no happy rebid over 2C or 2D..while I routinely rebid 2M on a 5 card suit, I need a better hand or suit to be comfortable.

[AL78]

mikeh, on 2023-January-06, 14:23, said:

The problem with playing Landy is that you are unable to bid any two suiter other than the majors, which is unplayable in a serious game

I was partnering an inexperienced player and Landy is the simplest of the defences to 1NT and allows you to show both majors. At her level helping her improve her bidding and card play takes priority over upgrading the system and the conventions.

[akwoo]

I would politely call the director on the non-alert of 3D, just so that the request to alert in the future comes from a director rather than me.

I'm not sure I'd ask for rectification - opposite a weak partner playing Landy, I might double 3D, but I wouldn't normally. (On this hand, I would expect partner to balance in with a double.)

As usual, this is precisely the kind of hand where inexperienced players don't do so well.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2023-January-06, 09:05, said:

Well done to those who would have opened on my hand. Three out of the other five East's must have opened as they found a major suit game, and one NS pair overbid to 5♦X-3.

Like Davidkok I have little sympathy with those who would have opened on your hand.
I'm not used to playing against weak NT, but FWIW as West would be frustrated if I had no useful agreement over 1NT and would risk double over the pass of 3♦ in any case.

[AL78]

akwoo, on 2023-January-06, 15:20, said:

I would politely call the director on the non-alert of 3D, just so that the request to alert in the future comes from a director rather than me.

The director was sat North, he didn't appreciate why the 3♦ bid might have to be alerted. They are a regular partnership and have always played it this way, so they consider it natural and normal.

[Evies Dad]

Anyone play Cansino over a weak NT ?
A quick 2C, then 4H by East.

I find I always have to ask what a sequence ending in 3m is - every club has a favourite method.