[Cyberyeti]

Played a 49 board event yesterday, held all 4 queens twice, both with only one other honour, got stupid results on both. This is the funnier of the 2 (posted for amusement rather than enlightenment).

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South didn't lead spades, but this went screaming off anyway in 50s.

I'm not sure how we should have bid this, but this wasn't it, opps too, this is a hell of a good weak 2 and a very skimpy double.

Anyway, not feeling great about this, but relieved to have avoided 3♥x.

Team mates auction started 1♥-(2♦)-2♠ so they played 4♠, didn't get a trump lead and chalked up a vulnerable game.

[AL78]

I'm not convinced overcalling at the two level on five to the king is a good idea. I would pass on the West hand. After the overcall, I don't understand why East is changing suit at the three level with nothing higher than a queen and doubleton support for West. Maybe I am out of touch with modern day bidding but any of my partners and I sitting EW would have been silent throughout. If you play double of a multi as showing diamonds that is an option on the first round.

[Cyberyeti]

 AL78, on 2022-June-27, 02:45, said:

I'm not convinced overcalling at the two level on five to the king is a good idea. I would pass on the West hand. After the overcall, I don't understand why East is changing suit at the three level with nothing higher than a queen and doubleton support for West. Maybe I am out of touch with modern day bidding but any of my partners and I sitting EW would have been silent throughout. If you play double of a multi as showing diamonds that is an option on the first round.

I'm not sure what 3♣ shows after the X, I was anticipating the X being a bit more balanced in the majors (maybe 4-2) expecting his partner to bid 3♠ most of the time so I wanted partner potentially to make a sensible decision over 3/4♠, I didn't anticipate the X being what it was, maybe I should have asked for clarification.

[DavidKok]

The 2♥ bid is practically forced, you can't afford to pass in that situation. North's takeout double is awful, presumably partner is expected to convert it to penalties with weak hearts, but doubling their 7-card fit into game on at most 17 HCP is not a wonderful idea. Those are some steep IMP odds you are being handed.

East's 3♣ is fine - show your long suit. Maybe alarm bells could have gone up ("North is short in hearts, so am I, does that mean South does not have spades?") but even if you believe this I'm not sure that there's a better bid. Redouble and pass deserve some consideration, it's a bit too complicated for me so I'll just say that 3♣ looks fine.

I think West should pass 3♣, and East should definitely pass 3♦. As the cards lie these contracts can be defeated by giving the defence a number of ruffs, but this is not always easy to find.

People do the craziest things over a multi - on this hand I think North is the one that took the weirdest action, though East's actions were not great either. Bid your suit and, if things get iffy, get out of the auction. Let the opponents make the last guess. That's why 3♥ by East was such a stinker - NS were ready to take drastic action at the 2-level, and this let them back in.

[nullve]

 DavidKok, on 2022-June-27, 05:38, said:

The 2♥ bid is practically forced, you can't afford to pass in that situation.

Why?

[LBengtsson]

 nullve, on 2022-June-27, 07:39, said:

[The 2♥ bid is practically forced, you can't afford to pass in that situation.] Why?

I have not played against the Multi that many times, only in Europe. I agree with nullve and AL78 that you should not overcall with a poor suit at the 2 level. Better to pass and see where things go, or X to show ♦s if that option is available.

[Cyberyeti]

 nullve, on 2022-June-27, 07:39, said:

Why?

I should have specified weak only multi which makes a big difference, our team mates on a previous board managed 2♦-P-P-P on a 2-3 or 2-2 fit with neither opp able to bid, -200/250 against a game.

[DavidKok]

I don't think weak only versus 'might be strong' is an important distinction here.

One of the bigger weaknesses of the multi is that, if you (the multi bidder) have spades, the opponents get two more bids than if you had opened 2♠ (weak two). Defenders can use that extra space to combat the multi.
Two good indications that RHO might hold spades are spade shortage and heart length. In addition, if somebody else in the field would open 2♠ weak two, their opponents (holding the same spade shortness and heart length) would have to bid 3♥ just to enter the auction, or give a negative double with a 5c♥. In my experience a strong agreement against the multi is 2♥ natural, 5(+), opening strength as opposed to the more common "5(+), sound opening values or extra length" that you'd play over most other preempts. The point is that, on average, you are somewhat protected. RHO usually has long spades and LHO will only rarely have the hand to double you - and if they have, it might have gone (2♠)-3♥-(X) at the other table so you'll still be fine some fraction of the time. On balance it pays to be more aggressive in this situation.

What's more, this might be your last chance to take control of the auction. The spade shortness suggests the opponents might have a fit, and hearts don't outrank spades. If you wait one round of bidding and opener confirms weak spades responder will be in a perfect position to judge their strain and level, for example 4♠ versus defending 4♥. If you show hearts now and partner can cough up a raise the situation is very different - opener might not be invited to the 3- or 4-level, and partner can inform us of our combined strength and degree of fit.

The example hand is way over strength for what I would require for a 2♥ bid. The heart suit is awful, but sitting around waiting for a decent hand and a good suit is too passive against modern preempts. At these colours I'd still bid 2♥ if you take away the king of clubs. Honestly it's a bit stunning that there's so much support for passing.

[DavidKok]

 LBengtsson, on 2022-June-27, 08:08, said:

I have not played against the Multi that many times, only in Europe. I agree with nullve and AL78 that you should not overcall with a poor suit at the 2 level. Better to pass and see where things go, or X to show ♦s if that option is available.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

[pescetom]

 DavidKok, on 2022-June-27, 09:11, said:

I don't think weak only versus 'might be strong' is an important distinction here.

One of the bigger weaknesses of the multi is that, if you (the multi bidder) have spades, the opponents get two more bids than if you had opened 2♠ (weak two). Defenders can use that extra space to combat the multi.
Two good indications that RHO might hold spades are spade shortage and heart length. In addition, if somebody else in the field would open 2♠ weak two, their opponents (holding the same spade shortness and heart length) would have to bid 3♥ just to enter the auction, or give a negative double with a 5c♥. In my experience a strong agreement against the multi is 2♥ natural, 5(+), opening strength as opposed to the more common "5(+), sound opening values or extra length" that you'd play over most other preempts. The point is that, on average, you are somewhat protected. RHO usually has long spades and LHO will only rarely have the hand to double you - and if they have, it might have gone (2♠)-3♥-(X) at the other table so you'll still be fine some fraction of the time. On balance it pays to be more aggressive in this situation.

What's more, this might be your last chance to take control of the auction. The spade shortness suggests the opponents might have a fit, and hearts don't outrank spades. If you wait one round of bidding and opener confirms weak spades responder will be in a perfect position to judge their strain and level, for example 4♠ versus defending 4♥. If you show hearts now and partner can cough up a raise the situation is very different - opener might not be invited to the 3- or 4-level, and partner can inform us of our combined strength and degree of fit.

The example hand is way over strength for what I would require for a 2♥ bid. The heart suit is awful, but sitting around waiting for a decent hand and a good suit is too passive against modern preempts. At these colours I'd still bid 2♥ if you take away the king of clubs. Honestly it's a bit stunning that there's so much support for passing.

I agree fully with this, so long as they don't have a high frequency strong option.

We even take things a step further and assume (by agreement) that the multi opener has spades, which gives us a better chance to describe our hearts holding or particular hands. The downside of course is that holding spades we have to pass and lose the preemptive hit of a natural 2♤ overcall on second seat, which Kit Woolsey thought unacceptable when we discussed this defence.

[LBengtsson]

 DavidKok, on 2022-June-27, 09:12, said:

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

No sarcasm at all David. I have some notes - that I looked at before posting on the forum about defense to a Multi 2♦. The defense is called 'Dixon'. It actually says on the notes not to overcall at the 2 level with a poor suit, though my notes also give that you can overcall 2♥ here with a good 4 card ♥ suit also. The poor ♥ suit and ♣K stiff just say 'no' to me.

Thinking again about this hand, maybe with 5/5 shape it is best to overcall on the first round, but that depends on how much understanding and gadget you have with partner to the Multi. If the bidding goes 2♦ - P - 2♥ - P - 2♠, then X should show ♣/♦/♥ and maybe 2NT takeout would show just two suits? I have little experience against the Multi so maybe best for me to retire and let others post their comments.

[DavidKok]

Ah, I know the Dixon defence against the multi. I think it is not a very good defence, mostly because the 2♥/2♠ overcalls are takeout of the other suit, instead of 5(+) of the suit bid. In particular, bidding on a 4-card suit is not too uncommon. My favourite defence is not all that complicated:

(2♦* Multi showing a weak major suit, I don't care if it can be a 5-card suit, I don't care that there might be strong options):

• Pass: Weak/Some specific hands that will enter the auction next round
  
• Double: 13-15 (semi)balanced or any very strong hand (approx 17+), 'train the guns' double.
  
• 2♥: Opening strength and 5(+) hearts.
  
• 2♠: Decent opening strength and 5(+) spades.
  
• 2NT: 16-19 (semi)balanced, does not promise stoppers in both major suits.
  
• 3♣/♦: A good opening with usually 6(+) in the suit bid, can be a 5-card suit with compensation in a pinch.

If you want to go scientific the direct leaps to 4m should show that minor and hearts (with the minor and spades pass first, enter the auction the second round) in both second and fourth seat, and you can use the 3M bids any way you please.

However, the most important piece of advice that I have when defending against the multi is to be more aggressive. Over a multi 2♦ it takes a while for the opponents to get going - their fit hasn't been established, and some partnerships are all too scared of preempting their own strong auction. The bid is less specific than a weak two, and leaves responder in a worse position. So there is more to gain and a lower risk to bidding than you'd normally expect, both of which recommend being aggressive. Knock a queen off of your normal expected strength and make a natural bid, and your partner will be captain of the auction.

I'm not at all a fan of waiting a round with a decent two-suiter, especially not if the opening bid was a 'measly' multi instead of a descriptive weak two. The fact that the example hand has got hearts, not spades, makes bidding automatic. Double to show diamonds is, in my opinion, also not that great (the intermediate semibalanced hands are much more common, difficult to bid otherwise and help establish that it is our board).

For what it's worth, I play (2♦*)-P-(2♥*)-P; (2♠)-X as takeout of spades (and some other auctions are analogous). Of course this doesn't make sense if you play Dixon defence - the double should probably be penalty in that case!

[mikeh]

I’m torn over 2D. Passing exposes one to the risk of getting stolen from.

Otoh, if RHO had opened 2S we’d feel tremendous pressure to bid, so we’re a level ahead of some pairs. I think it’s worth bidding, though I’d really like to hold K109xx rather than this emaciated suit.

As for what happens thereafter, we play double says pass if you have hearts, bid if you have spades. I don’t like my chances of beating 2H. If we get only 1 spade trick, we need partner to take 5 tricks! Hardly likely against a competent declarer. If we get out maximum of 2 spade tricks, we still need an unlikely 4 more from partner, against a declarer who can basically play double dummy.

And, yes, I see that south does have at least 4 trump tricks:). Which is why I’d like to have held better spots. Plus south has an improbable side ace.

As for east, I think it’s very bad to bid as he did. Why bid a weak suit on a weak hand while looking at Qx in partner’s suit? I just don’t understand that, unless east was hoping to suggest a save over 4S, which they sure haven’t reached yet and likely won’t on most layouts.

Then, after finding out that opener has hearts and partner has the red suits, we bid 3N?? With Jx in spades???

The only player who clearly has his bids was south. West arguably had his bids, but neither North nor East demonstrated much understanding of the game, at least on this board. And for south not to lead spades on this auction? Wow. Indeed, were I to trust north’s double, I’d double 3N at the speed of light. Where the heck are they scoring any tricks?

[Cyberyeti]

 mikeh, on 2022-June-27, 14:33, said:

I’m torn over 2D. Passing exposes one to the risk of getting stolen from.

Otoh, if RHO had opened 2S we’d feel tremendous pressure to bid, so we’re a level ahead of some pairs. I think it’s worth bidding, though I’d really like to hold K109xx rather than this emaciated suit.

As for what happens thereafter, we play double says pass if you have hearts, bid if you have spades. I don’t like my chances of beating 2H. If we get only 1 spade trick, we need partner to take 5 tricks! Hardly likely against a competent declarer. If we get out maximum of 2 spade tricks, we still need an unlikely 4 more from partner, against a declarer who can basically play double dummy.

And, yes, I see that south does have at least 4 trump tricks:). Which is why I’d like to have held better spots. Plus south has an improbable side ace.

As for east, I think it’s very bad to bid as he did. Why bid a weak suit on a weak hand while looking at Qx in partner’s suit? I just don’t understand that, unless east was hoping to suggest a save over 4S, which they sure haven’t reached yet and likely won’t on most layouts.

Then, after finding out that opener has hearts and partner has the red suits, we bid 3N?? With Jx in spades???

The only player who clearly has his bids was south. West arguably had his bids, but neither North nor East demonstrated much understanding of the game, at least on this board. And for south not to lead spades on this auction? Wow. Indeed, were I to trust north’s double, I’d double 3N at the speed of light. Where the heck are they scoring any tricks?

3N was bid purely not to get doubled, and it worked, I was prepared to go for any number of 50s. I also wasn't sure if 3♦ was forcing or how much 3♣ actually showed. Yes I'd have doubled it with that whale in the south seat, but I'd have opened 1♥.