[mr1303]

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South didn't think his minor suit honours were pulling their full weight, and he thought the J of spades was worthless.

North thought that 2S had bid his hand.

3H made +1 when the 10 of clubs was stiff on the right, after the King of clubs was led.

[DavidKok]

I think neither player underbid by much. 4♥ requires some favourable club break (with the ten stiff in the East hand and trumps splitting 2-2 or 3-1 with West having at most two diamonds you can eliminate spades and diamonds and then play a club to the jack even if West doesn't helpfully lead them, but against many other distributions this line will not work).
North might take a view and bid game anyway based on the quality of the values (aces and kings) and the extra trump. Some partnerships use 2NT on this auction to show 4(+) hearts and at least invitational values, over which South might make a game try.

For what it's worth, I think game is actually quite good. If West has diamonds you are favourite to make (you will likely make a spade, a diamond, a diamond ruff, five hearts and two clubs by finessing for the ten). With West holding clubs your chances are not as good, but still there are some options. It's just not that easy to bid game on these two hands.

[mikeh]

As David suggested, there’s not a huge amount of blame to go around.

However, I think south was caught up in a glass half empty way of thinking, which I recognize because it’s my worst habit at the table. I think it’s incorrect to think that the minor suit honours aren’t working. I’d even suggest that it’s a mistake to think of the spade Jack as worthless.

The point is that north showed a hand willing to force to at least 3H opposite a minimum opening hand. I don’t know what style this partnership plays but most players would open the south hand without, say, the diamond queen and some (including my partners and I) would open xx AQxxx xxx AJx.

So west has 5-5 in spades and a minor. So what? Don’t underestimate the value of this sort of information when declaring a hand.

I often say that the best way to think of bidding is as a conversation. Here, north said: do you have a minimum opening hand? If so, bid 3H. Otherwise bid game or, with a very good hand, make a slam try, with which I may or may not cooperate.

In that context, south could reply: I have more than a minimum. I may get unlucky in that I have a borderline hand, but it’s not a minimum. Therefore I bid game.

But game is only fair. It’s one that one would want to bid at imps, being vulnerable, but at mps I think it’s a toss up.

[Douglas43]

I agree, not a huge miss. If the lead is a passive trump do you make 10?

Maybe south might rebid 3♣ as a game try?

[helene_t]

I must admit I would have bid game as north and would have made a trial as South. But I am probably too optimistic.

[bluenikki]

mr1303, on 2022-June-17, 03:12, said:

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South didn't think his minor suit honours were pulling their full weight, and he thought the J of spades was worthless.

North thought that 2S had bid his hand.

3H made +1 when the 10 of clubs was stiff on the right, after the King of clubs was led.

Did North think his bid promised four strong hearts? Could he have had Kxx?

(I personally believe that failure to double denies 10 hcp.)

[helene_t]

bluenikki, on 2022-June-18, 20:14, said:

(I personally believe that failure to double denies 10 hcp.)

No, the 2♠ bid is unlimited. In "starndard methods" I think double would be similar to a business redouble, i.e. ostensibly showing interest in defending. So you wouldn't normally double with 3-card support and certainly not with 4-card support.

But I agree that North's hand is better than it might have been.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2022-June-20, 03:19, said:

No, the 2♠ bid is unlimited. In "starndard methods" I think double would be similar to a business redouble, i.e. ostensibly showing interest in defending. So you wouldn't normally double with 3-card support and certainly not with 4-card support.

But I agree that North's hand is better than it might have been.

I'm not sure what standard methods are, to me 2♠ is a 3 card raise and 2N a 4 card raise both limit+, not sure what other people use 2N for, but I agree with X being penalty oriented.

[mr1303]

2S by North was defined as 3+ cards, 10+ HCP or thereabouts. 2NT was unfortunately natural in our methods, otherwise showing a good 4 card raise would clearly be superior, and then South might well bid a game. X would look for a penalty.