[ali quarg]

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[LBengtsson]

No imo.

[Cyberyeti]

Would take some overbidding and probably a bit of a system quirk to do it.

eg if we open 1♣ and subsequently bid a major, we have a 15+ count or a 5th club unless exactly 4414 (which is rare so normally not accounted for in decision making) so E might overvalue his hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

East makes a neg. X, ..., some will claim is showes 44, which would obviously be brilliant, but
is not the case, it would reduce the frequency of the bid too much, and South will raise.
This leaves West, holding a min opener, but with likely major suit fit: He could make a
responsive double, the single being enough compensation for the lack of high card power.
Facing the responsive double, with nothing to spare, East will bid his 4 carder, and thats it.

If you won part the score battle, be happy, I am not sure, everybody will be able to do so.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

I would not expect to reach this one very often

I don’t think east can make a negative double.while I don’t believe that such a double can never be on 4-3 majors, such doubles should, imo, be very rare indeed…there is a significant risk of reaching a 4-3 fit. I’m not afraid of moysians, having played many in my day, but I’d want stronger hearts and a slightly stronger overall hand for that auction when 4=3. Give me the same hand with AQxx in hearts and I’d double.

With a pass by east, south should imo definitely bump the auction to 3D, although ironically that might backfire if west takes an aggressive view.

West could double 3D and this should, imo, fetch 4D by responder, who would convert 4H to 4S, showing basically his hand. If he had 4 hearts, he’d pass 4H. If he had 5+ spades, he’d have bid 4S over the double (with these values), so 4D then 4S shows a club fit as well.

Whether west should double is a tough one. Obviously it’s tempting to let knowledge of the hands influence our thinking. It’s always amusing to see how well some posters bid when they know the hands, lol.

In fact, I think that there will be ‘glass half empty’ days when I pass and others when I double.

If south passes, west clearlydoubles. Then they reach 3S or 4S…probably 3S

[akwoo]

mikeh, on 2021-December-01, 12:23, said:

I don’t think east can make a negative double.

I doubt I'm going to convince you to play weak NT anytime soon, but I'll point out this is the poster hand for weak NT. East can make a negative double safe in the knowledge that West is 15+ or unbalanced.

I think we get 1C-(2D)-X-(3D)-X-(P)-3S-AP

Actually, I probably double with East even playing strong NT. But that's not because it's right; it's because I play too much weak NT.

[mikeh]

akwoo, on 2021-December-01, 14:52, said:

I doubt I'm going to convince you to play weak NT anytime soon, but I'll point out this is the poster hand for weak NT. East can make a negative double safe in the knowledge that West is 15+ or unbalanced.

I think we get 1C-(2D)-X-(3D)-X-(P)-3S-AP

Actually, I probably double with East even playing strong NT. But that's not because it's right; it's because I play too much weak NT.

Lol


I’ve played 10-12 in a Bermuda bowl. I’ve played 11-14 in a team trials final. I’ve played 12-14, 10-13, 13-15, and in my current most serious partnership will be playing 11-13 in the WC in March (along with 14-16, depending on seat and vulnerability). I think I probably played 16-18 when I learned the game in the 1970s and of course played a lot of 15-17.

So I think I can claim to be reasonably familiar with virtually every 1N range played anywhere for the past 50 years (other than ranges starting below 10)

[helene_t]

I think East can double, even playing strong NT. Worst that can happen is that we end up in 2♥ in a 4-3 fit or 3♣ in a 4-4 fit with 12+9 points. Not the end of the World, they are not going to double us most of the time.

On this hand, we will end in 2♠, or maybe 3♠ if W overbids with 3♦, but E is not going to accept an invite, already having stretched with the dbl.

[DavidKok]

I would double with the East hand. What else? I hate passing with values for competition and shortage in opps' suit.

We probably don't get to game, but it's close. After 1♣-(2♦)-X-(3♦); X (responsive)-(P)-3♠-(P); ? the question is if West is worth another bid. I think the hand is not, but aggressive bidders might disagree (and what kind of contract is 3♠ anyway?!).

South might jump to 4♦ instead of 3♦. Good luck doubling that, and even then it only seems to go 2 off.

[gszes]

x should almost always (see MikeH). I feel pass here puts wayyyyy too much pressure on opener to make a reopening x especially when we have good reason to believe they have some dia length. I would opt for 3c here which has a very strong probability of at least 44. If opener does have extra values, we can still find our way to 3/4s. Once we bid 3c opener should have no trouble bidding:

Pass by south 3d raising a major suit bid by east to the 4 level.
3d by south 4d asking east to bid a major
4d by south 4h (on the way to 5c just in case E has 4 hearts) E will then bid 4s just in case W also has 4 spades)

[mikeh]

helene_t, on 2021-December-01, 16:43, said:

I think East can double, even playing strong NT. Worst that can happen is that we end up in 2♥ in a 4-3 fit or 3♣ in a 4-4 fit with 12+9 points. Not the end of the World, they are not going to double us most of the time.

On this hand, we will end in 2♠, or maybe 3♠ if W overbids with 3♦, but E is not going to accept an invite, already having stretched with the dbl.

Why on earth would west bid 3D? If he wants to be in game, his bid is 4D

3D then raising to game is a slam try.

[Douglas43]

mikeh, on 2021-December-02, 22:45, said:

Why on earth would west bid 3D? If he wants to be in game, his bid is 4D

3D then raising to game is a slam try.

Please remember this is the novice / beginner forum mikeh, your point about 3♦ cue versus 4♦ cue is interesting but it's new to me and I'm not a beginner or novice player

[Winstonm]

This is a classic “almost” hand. Responder should feel like he wants to bid and opener should feel the same over 3 D but neither hand is really good enough to take action - but both almost are.

[helene_t]

By the way, wouldn't we end up in 2♥ rather than 2♠, assuming that E doubles? Maybe E can double and then bid 2♠ if we play Switch or NFB so that E has already denied long spades, but playing standard methods I think W will respond 2♥ to the double, and that will end the auction.

OTOH, if E passes, W may double, and then E bids 3♠.

[smerriman]

helene_t, on 2021-December-04, 14:01, said:

By the way, wouldn't we end up in 2♥ rather than 2♠, assuming that E doubles?

If south passes, yes, but there's no way that will ever happen.

[thepossum]

Not sure why either partnership wants to be in game and which game?