[mw64ahw]

This is a hand where EW can make 5M or E 3NT/W 4NT yet out of 16 tables no one bid and made game.
The single 4♠ bidder went down 2 and half of the tables didn't move beyond the 2 level.
Our own auction stopped in 3♥ with 9 tricks made
P-(1♣)-1NT takeout-(P)-2♠-(P)-3♥-(P)-P-(P)
I was wondering what approach bids & make game or was partner too cautious?

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[mcphee]

West is too good to pass the o/c and can bid 3H or 2N.

[DavidKok]

P-(1♣)-1♥-(P); 1♠-(P)-2♠-(P); 3♠-(P)-4♠-a.p. looks reasonable to me? The 1♠ is NF and shows 5, over which East is worth a raise even despite partner having passed. West's weak queens now improve and I think that hand is worth a game try (partner may have a solid 15), though it's not clear to me if you should try for spades or NT. And East might well accept since aces are worth extra, but that depends a bit on partnership style.

Making it is a different story. You can pitch a diamond on the long hearts, but you still have to play the majors for two losers combined. On the auction I would probably play small spade to the ace, small spade back (and ducking), hoping for king double with North, and with some assurances that the king of hearts is onside if this play loses. Not the best game I've ever seen, but I'd be happy to be in it.

[nige1]

mw64ahw 'This is a hand where EW can make 5M or E 3NT/W 4NT yet out of 16 tables no one bid and made game. The single 4♠ bidder went down 2 and half of the tables didn't move beyond the 2 level. Our own auction stopped in 3♥ with 9 tricks made.
P-(1♣)-1NT takeout-(P)-2♠-(P)-3♥-(P)-P-(P)
I was wondering what approach bids & make game or was partner too cautious?'
+++++++++++++++++++++
Game is no certainty but worth bidding at imps. A successful auction needs appropriate agreements. In mw64ahw's auction, perhaps West is worth another bid rather than halting abruptly on the sixpence of 3♥.
2 of my partnerships play intermediate 2-level overcalls. Such an agreement would work well here. 2-overcalls (both simple and jump) show a good opening-bid and a 6-card suit (or strong 5-card suit).

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[Cyberyeti]

Game basically depends on N having the ♥K to 3 or less for 3N (you might get away with ♥Kxxx in 4M, but N having 4 spades including the K would be problematic). Assuming 1♣ is the normal US version you don't get extra info, if NS are playing weak NT 4M you get the knowledge that he's unbalanced so likely to have 4 of one of the majors and 5 clubs or be (13)45 or have 6 clubs.

[Winstonm]

I find it rather amazing how many times I see a problem and think to myself, well, if only we played intermediate jump overcalls....they fill such a huge hole in defensive bidding.

In my personal experience, I cannot see myself or my partners making a move over 1H. There is no real strong reason to introduce a Qxxxx of spades when you have at least decent tolerance for hearts, and the rest of the hand isn't good enough to compensate. However, if I were to bid (which is not all that bad because of the pass by RHO) then my bid would be 1N, not 1S.

[DavidKok]

I don't understand the posted auction, and I also don't understand the suggestion of bypassing 5-card spade suits, or passing on 10 points opposite a 1-level overcall with silent opponents. What qualifies a hand for 1NT (takeout) followed by 3♥ rather than 1♥ or 2♥? And what happened to double?

[LBengtsson]

I think this is acceptable natural bidding

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East hand is strong (3 aces and six card suit) so can make invite with 3♥. west accepts invite. after passing on first round west should show hand type and point range opposed to poor 5 card ♠ suit. if east has 5/6♥ + 4♠ then he can make a bid of 2♠ here imo so ♠ fit does not get lost. if east had a better hand with ♥ + ♠ suit here then east would not have made overcall of 1♥ but would have made a takeout X.

both east as overcaller, and west as passed responder have described their hands correctly with these bids. I think it is right to have 1NT by west here as either 8-10 (9-11) balanced. but easier to judge having seen both hands, though east hand is more like 15-16 count because of aces and ♥ suit quality.

[mw64ahw]

DavidKok, on 2021-October-10, 11:18, said:

I don't understand the posted auction, and I also don't understand the suggestion of bypassing 5-card spade suits, or passing on 10 points opposite a 1-level overcall with silent opponents. What qualifies a hand for 1NT (takeout) followed by 3♥ rather than 1♥ or 2♥? And what happened to double?

We tend to play the NT takeout as roughly 8-14 hcp with 3♥ showing 13/14hcp and a six+ card suit. West's 2♠ will show 5♠ and could be worthless to about 11hcp. X will be 15+hcp-we play an adapted version of the overcall structure.

Playing standard I start with a X

[Winstonm]

DavidKok, on 2021-October-10, 11:18, said:

I don't understand the posted auction, and I also don't understand the suggestion of bypassing 5-card spade suits, or passing on 10 points opposite a 1-level overcall with silent opponents. What qualifies a hand for 1NT (takeout) followed by 3♥ rather than 1♥ or 2♥? And what happened to double?

I can only respond based on my personal experience and with my personal views. IMO, the first thing to establish in defensive bidding is fit - once fit is established we have more freedom to compete. Introduction of new suits - without a cue bid - shouldn't be based on trying to find a better fit but on a discouragement with the overcalled suit, a suggestion that perhaps we are better playing 1S than 1H. It really doesn't become constructive until 1NT, which is forward going, IMO.

RHO's pass makes it more likely partner has a decent overcall, but not enough to think game is likely. Substitute KJ10xxx of hearts and nothing changes but the results.

Those are simply my views. I am not married to them nor do I claim any greater knowledge of success. Your mileage may vary.

[johnu]

mw64ahw, on 2021-October-10, 06:15, said:

Our own auction stopped in 3♥ with 9 tricks made
P-(1♣)-1NT takeout-(P)-2♠-(P)-3♥-(P)-P-(P)

I can't think of any improvements to your bidding if you continue to use 1NT as takeout on that type of hand.

[mikl_plkcc]

A plausible auction for me will go:
/ - (1♣) - 1♥ - (/)
1♠ (encouraging but not forcing, denying 3 ♥) - (/) - 2♣ (showing a maximal hand, intend to show support later) - (/)
2♥ (preference, showing exactly 2 ♥) - (/) - 4♥ (double fit - voila)

However, it is for me a borderline between 2♣ (maximal hand) or 2♠ (intermediate hand) for the second bid, and if I'm more conservative the bidding will end at 2♠.

[sfi]

Why do people want to be 4H on this hand? It looks like a poor spot. We have one dummy entry which we need to use to finesse hearts and to cash our long spades. That's a lot to ask of the DK. Even if the suits break well I don't think we're favourites to make the contract.

4S is quite a bit better, although it's no bargain on a diamond lead. DavidKok presents the most plausible auction to that game, but I don't think I'd be making a game try over 2S. The common auctions I would expect are:

(1C) - 1H - 1S; 2S - pass, and
(1C) - 1H - 1NT; 2H - pass

West might raise hearts in the second auction and that would probably get us to 4H. I would be regretting that when dummy hit though.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

West needs to find a bid, he has 10HCP.

The only reason that would justify pass is, that you play very limited overcall.
In the past overcalls were limited to 15HCP, but this upper limit got thrown out
a couple of years ago.

I am not sure, if I bid 1S or 1NT.
If you go with 1NT the overcalling hand will see some wastage in clubs, and also
at best a secondary 62 fit and a limited hand, i.e. it is not 100% clear,
if the should stretch to invite, no real fit and no real HCP power.

If you go with 1S, assuming it showes 5+, overcaller sees a fit, the club shortage
combined with the short trumps looks great and add hard values, so stretching may be
sensible.

With kind regards
Marlowe