[Winstonm]

smerriman, on 2021-September-18, 14:55, said:

If you're playing lebensohl rather than ingberman, 3♣ *can* be passed, since 2♠ is only a one round force.

Yes, I am. Thank you.

[mycroft]

You play kickback, right?

And 4♦ is obviously ace-asking?

Or, maybe it's 4♥? Of course, whichever it is, it's obvious, yes?

Make whatever ace-ask call you have, and hope partner gets it right. At least this time, unlike if opener had the reds, you won't get passed in it.

[jillybean]

mycroft, on 2021-September-20, 10:26, said:

You play kickback, right?

And 4♦ is obviously ace-asking?

Or, maybe it's 4♥? Of course, whichever it is, it's obvious, yes?

Make whatever ace-ask call you have, and hope partner gets it right. At least this time, unlike if opener had the reds, you won't get passed in it.

Regular 1430 with this partner, no kickback. Nothing is obvious after 4♣

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2021-September-18, 11:09, said:

Playing reverses as gf is very much a minority view.

It’s common to respond to 1C on such as KJxxx Jxx xxx xx…..in my partnerships we’d respond 1S (actually 1H as a transfer) with Kxxxx xxx xxx xx.

So to make 2D a gf requires either a truly enormous and rare hand or a desire for minus scores.

Indeed, the purpose of playing methods such as ingberman or lebensohl is to allow responder to announce weakness and thus avoid the gf.

Ingberman is very good here: use 2H as the negative bid…note that it allows opener an easy 2S on 3=1=4=5 or when she’s faked a reverse with 3=1=3=6, etc.

So, playing ingberman, 2S is game force. Playing lebensohl, 2S is ambiguous…it shows 5+ spades but with no strength definition.

Btw, while responder should be thinking of slam, at least, over 2D, I wouldn’t bid a forcing 3C, since we should be playing in spades opposite, say, KQx x Axxx AQxxx,which would (for me) be an absolute minimum reverse…warranted by the spade holding….x KQx AJxx AQxxx is a stronger hand but, imo, not worth a reverse….many would differ on that and, indeed, the hand is very difficult to bid if one doesn’t reverse.

Again, ingberman does better than does lebensohl, since 2S establishes the gf. Now opener has a trivial 3D, responder bids 4C, forcing, with at least some slam interest.

If opener now cuebid 4D, if 4N is keycard then we’ll reach grand unless feeling very pessimistic, since we can discover the diamond King…..of course grand is good only because opener holds the club Jack….but if he doesn’t, clubs could be 2=2 or the right opp has the short diamonds, or opener might hold AKQx AQxxxx in the minors, and so on.I think one would need to be quite pessimistic to avoid 7C.

If keycard is unavailable (personally I think 4N, in minor slamming auctions, should show ‘extras in context but not enough to cuebid beyond game’), I can see

1C. 1S
2D. 2S
3D. 4C
4D. 4H
5C. 5S
7C

Having shown a minimum via 5C, rather than bidding 4N, and seeing the grand slam try of 5S, opener has to bid the grand….she has a ‘good’ bad hand in context.I am

I need to clarify, I play a reverse by opener is announcing game opposite a partner who could respond to the opening bid, unless partner has responded on a sub minimum, likely after a 1C opening as you note above. With my regular partner I play leb after a reverse.

In this game I am a sub in an IMP League team and haven't discussed leb/ingB but its not needed here as driving to slam after partner opens 1♣ and rebids 2♦

[Gilithin]

jillybean, on 2021-September-20, 19:15, said:

Regular 1430 with this partner, no kickback. Nothing is obvious after 4♣

Surely it is at least obvious that 4♥ (4th suit at the 4 level) agrees clubs with slam interest? The question is really whether you think you can get any useful information from going slowly. If you think you can then this seems like a safe course that partner will definitely not pass; if not and you have worries about the alternatives, just place the contract with your best guess. After all, partner apparently showed a full GF hand (maybe mention that in the OP?) and we have a solid opening bid with 5 controls and a huge trump fit - how bad can it actually be?