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When Partner Invites and you don't know what to do

#1 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 12:36

You are playing imp pairs and pick up this hand and hear partner open 1C. You are playing with a pickup and have no agreements other than simple 2/1. What now?

3S=15-17 ish


This is what happened.

Spoiler


Comments?
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#2 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 13:44

3S=15-17 ishWinstonm 'You are playing imp pairs and pick up this hand and hear partner open 1C. You are playing with a pickup and have no agreements other than simple 2/1. What now?
+++++++++++++++++++
The North hand comfortably passes John McLaren's "Ace-extra test". You are considerably more than a ace better than you could have been for your initial response. Hence, IMO, you are worth a 4 cue-bid.

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#3 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 14:07

View Postnige1, on 2021-September-10, 13:44, said:

3S=15-17 ishWinstonm 'You are playing imp pairs and pick up this hand and hear partner open 1C. You are playing with a pickup and have no agreements other than simple 2/1. What now?
+++++++++++++++++++
The North hand comfortably passes John McLaren's "Ace-extra test". You are considerably more than a ace better than you could have been for your initial response. Hence, IMO, you are worth a 4 cue-bid.



agree. extra trump. two honours in trump suit. extra values. cue bid A
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#4 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 14:47

I expect a 5.5 MLT for the 3 bid. North has an 8 MLT hand before any adjustments for the fit giving an expected playing level of 5.5. With 3 of the 6 keycards a 4 cue bid of your flavour is appropriate.
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 15:26

I agree with the 4 control-bid by N, but I think 3 by S was also unenterprising.
One doesn't need K&R to give the hand 17.75 and I would expect 3 to be forcing and fit showing even if not discussed as splinter.
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#6 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 17:19

Lazy bidding by N.

Partner showed an unbalanced hand with equivalent strength to a strong NT (otherwise they’d have opened 1NT!), with almost always a singleton (barring concentrated blacks 5422’s), so you have at max a wasted Q. But partner will more often have a sg D, and in that case, the HQ could help fill holes in partner’s residual suit.

The rest of your hand consists in an opening strength, an extra trump in a suit headed by KQ, and a potentially useful CJ.

What more does one need to at least investigate slam and cue 4D?
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#7 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 19:52

Over any kind of invitational 1M to 3 raise (whether by opener or responder, and 3M or some artificial type bid like Bergen), I really like having an artificial 3M+1 shortness ask, aka Mathe asking bid. Here 3nt, opener shows short diamonds, and it is easy.

I don't know if cue bidding 4D really does the trick if you are playing mixed cue bids and might do it with K of diamond rather than ace, or if say SKxxxx of spades and AQxx of diamonds.

1c-1S-3d by opener would also have worked if playing that as non-gf invitational spl.
Of course all this is moot opposite a pickup partner and you are basically in a guessing situation.
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#8 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-September-12, 00:55


This auction would IMO show a stronger hand than South has, so I prefer


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#9 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-12, 08:50

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-September-10, 19:52, said:

Over any kind of invitational 1M to 3 raise (whether by opener or responder, and 3M or some artificial type bid like Bergen), I really like having an artificial 3M+1 shortness ask, aka Mathe asking bid. Here 3nt, opener shows short diamonds, and it is easy.

I don't know if cue bidding 4D really does the trick if you are playing mixed cue bids and might do it with K of diamond rather than ace, or if say SKxxxx of spades and AQxx of diamonds.

1c-1S-3d by opener would also have worked if playing that as non-gf invitational spl.
Of course all this is moot opposite a pickup partner and you are basically in a guessing situation.


Having begun to play duplicate bridge in Santa Barbara, I heard the term Mathe asking bid but I never played them nor against them; however, I see value in them.
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#10 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-12, 08:57

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-September-10, 14:07, said:

agree. extra trump. two honours in trump suit. extra values. cue bid A


How do you think it should go after this:

1C-1S
3S-4D
4H-?

After all, why can't opener hold Axxx, AK, Kx, QJxxx?


PS: This is where the idea put forward by Stephen Tu of Mathe asking bids has real value, IMO.



This post has been edited by Winstonm: 2021-September-12, 08:59

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#11 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-September-12, 20:40

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-September-10, 12:36, said:

Comments?

Opener has a 4 rebid.
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#12 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-September-13, 03:03

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-September-12, 08:57, said:

How do you think it should go after this:

1C-1S
3S-4D
4H-?

After all, why can't opener hold Axxx, AK, Kx, QJxxx?

PS: This is where the idea put forward by Stephen Tu of Mathe asking bids has real value, IMO.




To me 4 denies a control so with the mooted hand I would sign off in 4 missing the control rather than bidding 4
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#13 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-13, 21:46

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-September-13, 03:03, said:

To me 4 denies a control so with the mooted hand I would sign off in 4 missing the control rather than bidding 4

Opener has clubs controlled. 4D comes from responder.
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#14 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-September-13, 22:37

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-September-13, 21:46, said:

Opener has clubs controlled. 4D comes from responder.

Opener didn't have clubs controlled in your 'why can't opener have' hand. They can't have that hand because they would know to sign off after responder skipped 4, not continue with 4.
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#15 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-September-13, 23:53

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-September-13, 21:46, said:

Opener has clubs controlled. 4D comes from responder.

Whoops
In which case I show 2 keycards with 4NT
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#16 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-16, 09:49

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-September-13, 22:37, said:

Opener didn't have clubs controlled in your 'why can't opener have' hand. They can't have that hand because they would know to sign off after responder skipped 4, not continue with 4.


Correct! Unless bidding only first round controls .
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#17 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2021-September-19, 00:45

Opener has a nice hand, and should make at least one slam try. However, Opener's hand is still (semi-)balanced, so I think cuebidding is the incorrect thing to do (Stephen Tu nails it on the head as to why I dislike it). If you play that [3M+1] is a shortness ask, then that is perfect to use. Otherwise, I am assuming that Last Train (4) is on, and I would bid that. Opener should clearly make a move with 7 controls in 3 suits, and slam would still be reached.
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