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Anyone still using forcing 1H-3H nowadays? Is this old-fashioned?

Poll: Anyone still using forcing 1H-3H nowadays? (21 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you play 1H-3H?

  1. Game forcing (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Invitational (9 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

  3. Preemptive (12 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

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#21 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-September-14, 14:06

That's quite the insult, that my system is appropriate for low level play but not against good opponents. I think both methods have merit, and I'd love to see your analysis of several hundred hands.
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#22 User is offline   perko90 

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Posted 2021-October-11, 09:44

I don't know of anyone who plays 1M-3M as a GF, and that includes a few folks in the 90+ age category.
Without any discussion, playing with a pickup partner, I would assume it's invitational.
But certainly treating it as preemptive or constructive has gained in popularity considerably.

Recently, I've switched to 1M-2NT = an invite or better w/ 4-card support. Our response structure works better than traditional Jacoby 2NT, even with the wider amount of responder hands to handle. So, I haven't looked back.
We have other uses for 1M-3m, so we don't use Bergen. For us, 1M-3M is either preemptive or constructive based on vulnerability.
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#23 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-October-11, 22:06

View Postperko90, on 2021-October-11, 09:44, said:

I don't know of anyone who plays 1M-3M as a GF, and that includes a few folks in the 90+ age category.
Without any discussion, playing with a pickup partner, I would assume it's invitational.
But certainly treating it as preemptive or constructive has gained in popularity considerably.

Recently, I've switched to 1M-2NT = an invite or better w/ 4-card support. Our response structure works better than traditional Jacoby 2NT, even with the wider amount of responder hands to handle. So, I haven't looked back.
We have other uses for 1M-3m, so we don't use Bergen. For us, 1M-3M is either preemptive or constructive based on vulnerability.


The reason to use 3M as forcing is to recapture 2N as natural.
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#24 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-October-12, 06:52

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-October-11, 22:06, said:

The reason to use 3M as forcing is to recapture 2N as natural.

All of the expert pairs I know of that play 1M - 2NT as natural play 1M - 3m and/or 1 - 2 as a forcing raise.
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#25 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-October-12, 09:56

View PostGilithin, on 2021-October-12, 06:52, said:

All of the expert pairs I know of that play 1M - 2NT as natural play 1M - 3m and/or 1 - 2 as a forcing raise.


Yes, there are other ways to get there. 3M is one of them. It solves a difficult problem of a hand with a fit good enough to force to game but uninterested in slam ventures, especially a hand without a decent 5-card side suit. Take QJx, QJx, xx, KQJx or QJx, KQ, QJx, Jxxxx and partner opens 1H or 1S.

Basically, if you want to increase the accuracy of the 2/1 bid, then there are two options with these hand types: bid 1NT 100% forcing then bid game over the response, or bid 3S forcing (a picture bid that describes a bad game raise).

The advantage is that when you do make a 2/1 and then support, you have the knowledge that there is a genuine 5-card of longer side suit and a decent hand.
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#26 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-October-12, 12:41

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-October-12, 09:56, said:

Yes, there are other ways to get there. 3M is one of them. It solves a difficult problem of a hand with a fit good enough to force to game but uninterested in slam ventures, especially a hand without a decent 5-card side suit. Take QJx, QJx, xx, KQJx or QJx, KQ, QJx, Jxxxx and partner opens 1H or 1S.

Basically, if you want to increase the accuracy of the 2/1 bid, then there are two options with these hand types: bid 1NT 100% forcing then bid game over the response, or bid 3S forcing (a picture bid that describes a bad game raise).

The advantage is that when you do make a 2/1 and then support, you have the knowledge that there is a genuine 5-card of longer side suit and a decent hand.

Maybe I open lighter than you but I am not convinced a balanced 12 count with 6 quacks is worth a game force. Put it this way, if you were playing Bergen and it went 1M - 3m (limit) -- (pause)3M - 4M, which is the approved auction for the hand type you describe, I would not be sympathetic as TD when you told me you were always going to game regardless of the BIT.

I will not argue you about the benefits of making the 2/1 auctions purer though. Fred Gitelman was a big supporter of that concept when he posted here and I am sure he knows a lot more about 2/1 GF systems than I do.
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