[jillybean]

Winstonm's way

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[Cyberyeti]

 jillybean, on 2021-August-16, 10:07, said:

Winstonm's way

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If I bid 4♠ what would 4N from partner mean ? and what would 4N mean from me ?

[Winstonm]

 jillybean, on 2021-August-16, 10:07, said:

Winstonm's way

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At this point I am committing us to slam as partner has agreed he likes his hand for slam. My bid at this point is a simple 4S as later on I want to emphasize that spade honors are a premium. If partner has nothing left to say, I would expect 5C over 4S, at which point I would continue with 5D (and this is one reason I set the suit with 4C - there can be no confusion that this is an attempt to play 5D). 5D commits us to 6C yet partner needs to ask himself why didn't I just bid 6. The obvious reason is looking for a grand. Partner will now cooperate and bid 5H with concentrated hearts, 5S with concentrated spades, or 6C with neither.

I'm not castigating those who use keycard or other such bids - it's just that I learned the game and was playing at a fairly high level well before the popularity of keycard and so learned cue bidding. If you get the same results another way, that is fine with me.

PS: To answer Cyberyeti's question, 4N is a partnership agreement: it can be keycard or, what I prefer, more of a last train type bid, showing extras, or something else entirely.

(At one time in one partnership I actually played Culbertson 4N/5N convention where in this sequence 4N would show 2 aces and a king of a previously bid suit, and if followed by 5N would show 3 aces. It was actually quite playable. )

[Cyberyeti]

 Winstonm, on 2021-August-16, 11:08, said:

PS: To answer Cyberyeti's question, 4N is a partnership agreement: it can be keycard or, what I prefer, more of a last train type bid, showing extras, or something else entirely.

The point of the question was to OP, because if you're not sure what 4N is over 4♠ then don't bid 4♠, and if you're not 100% sure how partner would read 4N, don't do that either

For us 4N over 4♠ would be a spade cue (we use NT to sub for the most expensive cue)

[LBengtsson]

 Winstonm, on 2021-August-16, 11:08, said:

At this point I am committing us to slam as partner has agreed he likes his hand for slam. My bid at this point is a simple 4S as later on I want to emphasize that spade honors are a premium. If partner has nothing left to say, I would expect 5C over 4S, at which point I would continue with 5D (and this is one reason I set the suit with 4C - there can be no confusion that this is an attempt to play 5D). 5D commits us to 6C yet partner needs to ask himself why didn't I just bid 6. The obvious reason is looking for a grand. Partner will now cooperate and bid 5H with concentrated hearts, 5S with concentrated spades, or 6C with neither.

I like your thinking here, Winstonm, however there may be 13 tricks available without partner having any extra value in ♥/♠. 1♠1♥6♦5♣ is c. 70% if partner has stiff ♦ and ♥A and ♣A

[Winstonm]

 LBengtsson, on 2021-August-16, 11:42, said:

I like your thinking here, Winstonm, however there may be 13 tricks available without partner having any extra value in ♥/♠. 1♠1♥6♦5♣ is c. 70% if partner has stiff ♦ and ♥A and ♣A

Yep - never claimed perfection or even best. Just my way.

Kx, Axxx, x, AJxxxx could bid 5S over 4S also 🧐

[jillybean]

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Here's the full hand. Winstonm, your partner may not have cooperated over 4♣?

We did bid to 6NT, on an auction that could have been better.
Cyberyeti, we have 4N available as a Spade cue, if we remember.

[Cyberyeti]

I think I'm in a grand -1 unless I can make 7N on a double.

[mw64ahw]

 jillybean, on 2021-August-16, 14:17, said:

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Here's the full hand. Winstonm, your partner may not have cooperated over 4♣?

We did bid to 6NT, on an auction that could have been better.
Cyberyeti, we have 4N available as a Spade cue, if we remember.

What was the lead on this one?

[Winstonm]

 jillybean, on 2021-August-16, 14:17, said:

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Here's the full hand. Winstonm, your partner may not have cooperated over 4♣?

We did bid to 6NT, on an auction that could have been better.
Cyberyeti, we have 4N available as a Spade cue, if we remember.

No, but I will still insist on 6 clubs over 5 clubs by bidding 5D This compels partner to cue 5H after which I can bid 5S or simply bid 7 clubs.

[jillybean]

 mw64ahw, on 2021-August-16, 15:04, said:

What was the lead on this one?

♦T

[Gilithin]

 Cyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 14:34, said:

I think I'm in a grand -1 unless I can make 7N on a double.

Is the double squeeze not reasonably automatic just from cashing tricks?

[Winstonm]

 Gilithin, on 2021-August-16, 16:16, said:

Is the double squeeze not reasonably automatic just from cashing tricks?

If north guards hearts and south spades I think the squeeze fails. In the 4 card ending north holds Jxx in hearts and Club J while south holds QI0x spades and Q hearts

[Cyberyeti]

 Winstonm, on 2021-August-16, 16:32, said:

If north guards hearts and south spades I think the squeeze fails. In the 4 card ending north holds Jxx in hearts and Club J while south holds QI0x spades and Q hearts

Nope, cash 6 diamonds and 3 clubs finishing in the diamond hand and A♠ then fixes N. A heart lead breaks this squeeze up, but not sure if there's another.

[DavidKok]

Now that the hand is known we sit back and wait for someone to give a plausible auction to 7♦ by East.

[Gilithin]

 Winstonm, on 2021-August-16, 16:32, said:

If north guards hearts and south spades I think the squeeze fails. In the 4 card ending north holds Jxx in hearts and Club J while south holds QI0x spades and Q hearts

Rather than throwing spades, I think the toughest defence is for North to keep the black suits. This causes some entry and timing issues rather than just giving a textbook double squeeze position.

[mw64ahw]

 jillybean, on 2021-August-16, 16:12, said:

♦T

Is it just me or is that a strange lead opposite 6NT when one of the opponents opponents have shown long ♦. Anyway you now make 7NT with the squeeze

[nullve]

So this is a compound squeeze starting as a triple squeeze against North.

A search tells me that lamford have posted at least two compound squeeze deals on BBF so far this year but I wonder how "common" (measured how?) compound squeezes really are.

Maybe we should have a "compound squeeze on BBO" competition?

[Cyberyeti]

 nullve, on 2021-August-17, 00:36, said:

So this is a compound squeeze starting as a triple squeeze against North.

A search tells me that lamford have posted at least two compound squeeze deals on BBF so far this year but I wonder how "common" (measured how?) compound squeezes really are.

Maybe we should have a "compound squeeze on BBO" competition?

Yup, for those that don't see it, the key to this is the squeeze on the 5th diamond not the 6th.

Cash one club and 5 diamonds, N has to keep 3 clubs so can't keep 3 hearts AND 2 spades. If he guards hearts, you just cash out the black winners and in the end game it's a classic double. It's more complicated if N keeps spades.

Now you hang on to the 6th diamond and club winners and cash ♥AK to take the idle cards out of his hand. Come back to the other top club and play the 6th diamond. He has to pitch a spade, you pitch a club then cross to the ♣A squeezing S as E has a heart and a spade, W has ♠Ax, N has a club and a spade and S has two spades and a heart and a discard to make.

[jillybean]

 mw64ahw, on 2021-August-17, 00:22, said:

Is it just me or is that a strange lead opposite 6NT when one of the opponents opponents have shown long ♦. Anyway you now make 7NT with the squeeze

Yes, I agree it's a strange lead. 6/19 pairs bid and made 6NT, one pair made +1

2 3 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S9
7 13 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 C2
8 15 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S6
13 6 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S6
14 8 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S6
16 12 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 DT
2 18 1470 0.0 34.0 6 NT W 13 CJ