[jillybean]

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Two questions, is there any reason not to play leb over a weak nt?

Assuming you do play leb, will you punt 3♣?

[TylerE]

I play it.

I'm gonna go high and bid 3N here. If I'm playing game it's going to be by giving the defense as little information as possible.

I'm not overly optimistic about the chances, but, nothing ventured nothing gained.

There's also going to be a strong correlation between how many tricks we make in 3C and how many we make in 3N.

[Cyberyeti]

TylerE, on 2021-March-22, 15:52, said:

I play it.

I'm gonna go high and bid 3N here. If I'm playing game it's going to be by giving the defense as little information as possible.

I'm not overly optimistic about the chances, but, nothing ventured nothing gained.

There's also going to be a strong correlation between how many tricks we make in 3C and how many we make in 3N.

I bid 3♣, I may get to see if partner has a spade stop, there's no law againt partner holding xxx, KQxx, Kxxx, KQx where 5♣ is cold and 3N doesn't even make if they don't cash 5 spades

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-March-22, 16:02, said:

I bid 3♣, I may get to see if partner has a spade stop, there's no law againt partner holding xxx, KQxx, Kxxx, KQx where 5♣ is cold and 3N doesn't even make if they don't cash 5 spades

Direct 3NT denies a stop in classical Lebensohl, so partner is supposed to run with xxx.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2021-March-22, 16:09, said:

Direct 3NT denies a stop in classical Lebensohl, so partner is supposed to run with xxx.

We play it that way round, but I thought in the original version of Leb it showed

[jillybean]

I play slow shows, fast denies.
3♣ gf says nothing about a stopper.

If you bid a direct 3nt, you are making things difficult for partner if she doesn't have a spade stopper.
If you are going to bid, I like 3♣'s , choice of games.

[TylerE]

jillybean, on 2021-March-22, 21:24, said:

If you bid a direct 3nt, you are making things difficult for partner if she doesn't have a spade stopper.

You're making it even harder on the opponents. By bidding 3C you give them free reign to bid at the 3 level, and inform their lead whereever you end up.

Partner does not have a hard time over 3N without a stopper, btw. They bid cheapest 4 card suit, and then you bid 5c. (Or perhaps consider passing 4♥, if that's what comes back)

[Douglas43]

Lebensohl is very widely played in UK with weak NT. My partner and I also play 1NT (natural overcall) Dble as take-out 8+hcp. I would bid 3C natural FG on this hand.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2021-March-22, 21:24, said:

I play slow shows, fast denies.
3♣ gf says nothing about a stopper.

If you bid a direct 3nt, you are making things difficult for partner if she doesn't have a spade stopper.
If you are going to bid, I like 3♣'s , choice of games.

The problem with 3C is that partner will bid 3N with a club card and a stopper. You need at least 2C cards and often need two stoppers. So when partner bids 3N, you don’t know whether you should pass or pull....and for most, given that 3C was forcing, pulling would imply a slam try...not if you pulled to 5C, perhaps.

I’d bid 2N, intending to pass 3C. Even at imps. Even if vulnerable.

Put one of my red aces into clubs, so I was, say, x xxx AQx AJ10xxx and bidding 3C is far more attractive. I’d not do it at mps, where I want my plus score (unless I needed a good board) but I’d certainly do it if red at imps.

Btw, if you want an improvement over lebensohl, look into transfer lebensohl.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2021-March-24, 09:22, said:

The problem with 3C is that partner will bid 3N with a club card and a stopper. You need at least 2C cards and often need two stoppers. So when partner bids 3N, you don’t know whether you should pass or pull....and for most, given that 3C was forcing, pulling would imply a slam try...not if you pulled to 5C, perhaps.

I’d bid 2N, intending to pass 3C. Even at imps. Even if vulnerable.

Put one of my red aces into clubs, so I was, say, x xxx AQx AJ10xxx and bidding 3C is far more attractive. I’d not do it at mps, where I want my plus score (unless I needed a good board) but I’d certainly do it if red at imps.

Btw, if you want an improvement over lebensohl, look into transfer lebensohl.

Thanks Mike, I will look into it. My system is gradually turning into a system of transfers, I like it.