[doria_55]

Folks!
last day I propose you the reckless bid of 7 NT where declarer is missing 2 Kings...today I would offer more gymnastics to your bridgistic minds:

---

Before I forget it, it was declared by the same couple who bid 7 NT



I look forward to hearing your comments!

[AL78]

 doria_55, on 2020-April-15, 17:27, said:

Folks!
last day I propose you the reckless bid of 7 NT where declarer is missing 2 Kings...today I would offer more gymnastics to your bridgistic minds:

---

Before I forget it, it was declared by the same couple who bid 7 NT



I look forward to hearing your comments!

That is the sort of thing that happens against me. Opponents don't bother to bid game with a combined 27 HCP so stop in a making partscore, whilst everyone else goes off in 3NT or 5♣.

It is quite a rare example of a game not making despite being well inside the theoretical HCP strength. Even changing the ♦Q to the ace 3NT is off and 5♣ is off if ♣AJx is offside, and that would be on a combined 29 count with minimal wastage. The problem is the quick tricks are concentrated in the short suits rather than the five card suit, and there are not enough of them to get nine tricks in NT before the defence set up the diamonds.

I would normally play 3♣ as showing 5+ clubs and four of a major, forcing to game, so I don't know where the pass from East came from. Either it is an inspired brilliancy or East thought West was showing a weak takeout into clubs. It is usually a good idea to make sure you are both playing the same system before you start, most of the time major bidding misunderstandings will be punished.

[nige1]

doria_55 "Folks! last day I propose you the reckless bid of 7 NT where declarer is missing 2 Kings...today I would offer more gymnastics to your bridgistic minds: Before I forget it, it was declared by the same couple who bid 7 NT I look forward to hearing your comments!"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Unless West is a pretty poor player, this is more suspicious. But even 2 swallows don't make a summer. You still need more evidence. Or -- if you feel that life is too short to waste pursuing them, yourself, then you could report them to abuse or just ask them to explain their thought processes.

Small mercy: expert clairvoyants would reach the Moysian 4♥ game.

---

[DavidKok]

As nige1 mentioned above, there is a game in 4♥. Reaching it is another matter, though. I think everybody plays a different system after Stayman responses - the first round of the convention is completely standard, but after that all bets are off. We would have to ask West what the 3♣ bid meant, especially with a passed hand.

[pescetom]

 DavidKok, on 2020-April-16, 03:40, said:

As nige1 mentioned above, there is a game in 4♥. Reaching it is another matter, though. I think everybody plays a different system after Stayman responses - the first round of the convention is completely standard, but after that all bets are off. We would have to ask West what the 3♣ bid meant, especially with a passed hand.

We play a variant of Puppet whereby East would know that West has 4-card hearts - whether he shows fit or not is another question.
If I was Director and they are not beginners I would be asking some hard questions here.

[AL78]

 DavidKok, on 2020-April-16, 03:40, said:

As nige1 mentioned above, there is a game in 4♥. Reaching it is another matter, though. I think everybody plays a different system after Stayman responses - the first round of the convention is completely standard, but after that all bets are off. We would have to ask West what the 3♣ bid meant, especially with a passed hand.

Only because the clubs break 2-2, otherwise there are three top losers and a club ruff. I didn't look at 4♥ for a possible game, as I can't see how anyone can work out during the auction there is a Moysian fit and that it is the best place to play.

[Vampyr]

 AL78, on 2020-April-16, 02:39, said:

That is the sort of thing that happens against me. Opponents don't bother to bid game with a combined 27 HCP so stop in a making partscore, whilst everyone else goes off in 3NT or 5♣.

It is quite a rare example of a game not making despite being well inside the theoretical HCP strength. Even changing the ♦Q to the ace 3NT is off and 5♣ is off if ♣AJx is offside, and that would be on a combined 29 count with minimal wastage. The problem is the quick tricks are concentrated in the short suits rather than the five card suit, and there are not enough of them to get nine tricks in NT before the defence set up the diamonds.

I would normally play 3♣ as showing 5+ clubs and four of a major, forcing to game, so I don't know where the pass from East came from. Either it is an inspired brilliancy or East thought West was showing a weak takeout into clubs. It is usually a good idea to make sure you are both playing the same system before you start, most of the time major bidding misunderstandings will be punished.

You are very generous to suggest that this might be a misunderstanding.

[DozyDom]

Given that it's all anonymous, I don't feel all that reluctant to say that these two are probably cheating in some way. They may very well not be, but I'd try to avoid playing them again. As for 4H being available, no one ever said they had to be clever.

[AL78]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-16, 07:22, said:

You are very generous to suggest that this might be a misunderstanding.

I tend not to initially attribute to malice what could be explained by carelessness/stupidity, I've had the equivalent done against me at a real bridge club. I know it is trivially easy to cheat at online bridge, all you have to do is be on the phone to your partner throughout the session.

[Cyberyeti]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-16, 07:22, said:

You are very generous to suggest that this might be a misunderstanding.

I could easily see this as a misunderstanding, I play 3♣ after stayman as to play, a lot of my partners would normally play it inv or forcing.

[KingCovert]

While I'm not saying pass is a particularly sound bid, I find it a little strange that people think have this much suspicion surrounding the choice to pass 3C.

• You have a somewhat poor 16 HCP hand.
  
• You have no major suit fit.
  
• Your partner has already taken a pass in this auction.
  
• Your partner's bid of 3C should show distribution, but, more importantly, suggests that 3NT is not a great contract.
  
• Your diamond holding sucks, and if you don't think you're getting a diamond lead... You're getting a diamond lead.

It's not the weirdest pass I've seen.

[Cyberyeti]

 KingCovert, on 2020-April-16, 10:53, said:

While I'm not saying pass is a particularly sound bid, I find it a little strange that people think have this much suspicion surrounding the choice to pass 3C.

• You have a somewhat poor 16 HCP hand.
  
• You have no major suit fit.
  
• Your partner has already taken a pass in this auction.
  
• Your partner's bid of 3C should show distribution, but, more importantly, suggests that 3NT is not a great contract.
  
• Your diamond holding sucks, and if you don't think you're getting a diamond lead... You're getting a diamond lead.

It's not the weirdest pass I've seen.

I would want to know what 3♣ meant, and whether they open most balanced 11s

[pescetom]

 AL78, on 2020-April-16, 06:51, said:

I didn't look at 4♥ for a possible game, as I can't see how anyone can work out during the auction there is a Moysian fit and that it is the best place to play.

I explained to you one way that East could know for sure there is a Moysian fit in a situation where West will probably force to game. Whether East prefers the Moysian hearts or 3NT with those diamonds is another matter. In our convention at least there is no way of showing club strength or diamonds weakness if East affirms hearts fit.

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-16, 11:32, said:

I would want to know what 3♣ meant

From each of them, separately.

[Cyberyeti]

 pescetom, on 2020-April-16, 13:33, said:

From each of them, separately.

And also what 1N-3♣ would be and whether they have a weak hand transfer for clubs.

Particularly from E, my suspicion is he's expecting Qxxx, x, xx, Jxxxxx or similar, W is clearly expecting 3♣ to be forcing, some people play the only way of getting out into 3♣ is via stayman when they don't play 4 suit transfers.

[johnu]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-16, 15:28, said:

And also what 1N-3♣ would be and whether they have a weak hand transfer for clubs.

Particularly from E, my suspicion is he's expecting Qxxx, x, xx, Jxxxxx or similar, W is clearly expecting 3♣ to be forcing, some people play the only way of getting out into 3♣ is via stayman when they don't play 4 suit transfers.

Even if West expects 3♣ to be forcing, why would they not just bid 3NT instead of introducing a non suit headed by the 10? Of course, nobody knows unless somebody asks them, but I expect a bidding poll would get 99+% in favor of bidding 3NT at that point in the auction.

[gszes]

glad to see at least some considering the pass as semi rational. With 4H and 4C available as safe havens it is hard to imagine a (decent) seeing eye pair stopping in 3c. I would just assume the east player did not know how to continue over 3c and felt pass was the least dangerous thing they could do. I am not saying the pass was a good choice just hardly the world's worst of all the possible bids available opposite a passed partner. My auction 1n 2c 2d 3c 3h (having hearts stopped for nt purposes and a diamond problem (I do not cue bid to show club support I look for nt first) 4c p would undoubtedly not have won any medals from my opps. Most play balanced opposite balanced look for major and bid nt and hope if there is a weak suit it is not attacked. I would only find 4h if the nt opener was near max with no wasted dia values and they would bid 4h over 4c on the way to 5c to suggest the moysian.

Hope all are well and continue to avoid covid 19