[lamford]

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IMPs converted to VPs.

By an unpassed hand, partner's double would be "bid your major" and 4H and 4S would be natural [corrected from original post]. Does this change here?

This post has been edited by lamford: 2018-February-16, 18:33

[helene_t]

So dbl and 4♥ mean the same?

If the idea is that x is a mild slam invite while 4♥ is a sign off, then I think it also applies to a passed hand.

[lamford]

helene_t, on 2018-February-16, 16:57, said:

So dbl and 4♥ mean the same?

If the idea is that x is a mild slam invite while 4♥ is a sign off, then I think it also applies to a passed hand.

Yes, on reflection, 4H and 4S by an un-passed hand have to be to play, and double must say "bid your major". The doubler can then move if suitable when he knows the major. By a passed hand, 4H is pass or correct, 4S is to play in spades or clubs, and double should be either penalties or "bid your major". I was persuaded by some good players that the latter was better on the grounds of frequency.

[helene_t]

lamford, on 2018-February-16, 17:02, said:

By a passed hand,[...] and double should be either penalties or "bid your major". I was persuaded by some good players that the latter was better on the grounds of frequency.

So what hand would need to dbl because 4♥ is not suitable? Mild slam invite? I can't really think of anything else.

[lamford]

helene_t, on 2018-February-16, 17:14, said:

So what hand would need to dbl because 4♥ is not suitable? Mild slam invite? I can't really think of anything else.

The hand my partner had: ♠ AQxx ♥ x ♦xxx ♣JTxxx when he is too good for 4S when we make 7C or 7S opposite ♠KJxxx ♥Axx ♦ none ♣ AKQxx. So, he doubles, saying "bid your major", and then corrects the likely 4H to 5C. He is now known to be making a slam try or he would have just bid 4S (pass or correct as well). This one I got wrong and -510 was just punishment.

[MrAce]

He has an easy 4♥ bid if he wants a major, he can't be asking to play there since he is coming from pass.
Despite what i wrote above this double shows cards in case they continue bidding. It is like a cue bid. Pd can not have a penalty double even if you cherry pick a hand for a penalty double.
You may ask why not 4♥ but DBL? As I said above pd will bid 4♥ even with 0 hcp and 4-4 majors. Dbl tells you he has values too, imho.

[gszes]

lamford, on 2018-February-16, 17:02, said:

Yes, on reflection, 4H and 4S by an un-passed hand have to be to play, and double must say "bid your major". The doubler can then move if suitable when he knows the major. By a passed hand, 4H is pass or correct, 4S is to play in spades or clubs, and double should be either penalties or "bid your major". I was persuaded by some good players that the latter was better on the grounds of frequency.

4h = POC 4s = spades or clubs covers everything the two suiter might have. In conjunction with this those first two choices might be best off as limited to a hand not good enough to x. A passed hand can still have a tremendous range as far as effectiveness
and slam capability that cannot be simply expressed with a 4h or 4s bid. X should be reserved for those hands that might consider slam. It could be as simple as Axxx Axxx xx xxx a big major suit fit with a couple of aces all the way to Kxxxx x xxxx Axx and a strong willingness to consider slam IF spades is the major. Thus a sequence of 3d 4c 4d x p 4h p 4s would show this type of slam interested hand. That may be what you meant when you said show your major but I felt it necessary to add the extra info.