[ArcLight]

How would you interpret this auction?

You deal and pass with a weak hand holding 6 baby clubs and a stiff spade

p 1D X p
2C 2D 2S p
?

What does pards 2S bid mean? How strong are they?
Do you pass pard in 2S with a weak hand?

[Stephen Tu]

This shows a hand that was too strong to overcall 1s. How strong is up to partnership agreement, preferences vary regionally. I would expect maybe 18, 19+ if balanced, a bit less with more shape.

I would bid 3c with 6 clubs very weak, generally you want to play in the weak hand's long suit, so that it can contribute trump tricks.

[rmnka447]

A take out double followed by the bid of a new suit as a rebid shows a hand that was too strong to make a simple overcall the first time. Typically, that's 16+ HCP with a good 6+ card suit. This bid is workaround for strong jump overcalls which have for the most part been supplanted by obstructive weak jump overcalls. The new suit bid is limited by a couple of stronger rebids -- a jump rebid in a new suit (here 3 ♠) and a cue bid of opener's suit (here 3 ♦). The cue bid shows the equivalent of a strong 2 ♣ hand while the jump rebid shows a hand not quite strong enough to cue, but better than a strong jump overcall hand. It sets trump. I like to call it the "bid game in my suit with any good excuse to do so" hand.

So, typically, subject to partnership agreement, It's something like a hand that you would open in the suit then make a jump rebid on (1 ♠ - 3 ♠). Since it is a limited bid you are not under any force to make another bid. So you can pass.

Stephen Tu made a good point about potentially playing in the weaker hand's long suit. But there is a caveat. If your long suit is weak, such as Kxxxxx, Qxxxxx, or Jxxxxx beware of rebidding it. There is no guarantee that partner with a separate long suit has anything at all in your suit. If not, you're looking at losing several tricks in your suit that probably wouldn't be lost playing in partner's suit. OTOH, if you have a reasonably good suit holding in your long suit, such as QJ109xx or KQ10xxx, then Stephen's point is very valid.

[Stephen Tu]

rmnka447, on 2017-October-08, 12:20, said:

A take out double followed by the bid of a new suit as a rebid shows a hand that was too strong to make a simple overcall the first time. Typically, that's 16+ HCP with a good 6+ card suit.

2s might be 6 spades but it certainly doesn't guarantee it. There are a reasonable number of hands that double and bid on 5 spades, because they are worried about missing game on a 1s all pass sequence when advancer has some random 6-7 count or whatever and no call over 1S. 5 spades 4 hearts, 5332s with 18/19 points will often double.

Quote

Stephen Tu made a good point about potentially playing in the weaker hand's long suit. But there is a caveat. If your long suit is weak, such as Kxxxxx, Qxxxxx, or Jxxxxx beware of rebidding it. There is no guarantee that partner with a separate long suit has anything at all in your suit. If not, you're looking at losing several tricks in your suit that probably wouldn't be lost playing in partner's suit.

Disagree. I am rebidding on 765432. Reasons:
- Partner can have anywhere from 0-4 clubs. Given that partner didn't jump in spades, didn't bid michaels, and opener rebid diamonds, all these factors increase the probability partner has a couple clubs vs. zero. Plus more combos getting him strong enough to double and bid when holding club honor(s), rather than concentrated in the majors only.
- Even opposite just 1 small club, if you have a yarb, playing in clubs rates to contribute 2-3 tricks to the cause in terms of long trumps or ruffs or entry to lead toward partner's honors. As long as you gain 2 tricks you are net ahead of playing in 2s where you contribute zero tricks. You'll probably go down, but 2s often going down more.
- If partner has solid long spades and 0/1 club where you take more tricks in spades, reasonably often partner will try 3s. You've only lost ground if 2S or fewer was the limit. This and the ones where partner fails to correct to spades and is wrong are going to be far less frequent than the cases where partner comes up with 1-3 clubs and you have gained 2-3 tricks, in my estimation.

[rmnka447]

Stephen Tu, on 2017-October-08, 15:20, said:

2s might be 6 spades but it certainly doesn't guarantee it. There are a reasonable number of hands that double and bid on 5 spades, because they are worried about missing game on a 1s all pass sequence when advancer has some random 6-7 count or whatever and no call over 1S. 5 spades 4 hearts, 5332s with 18/19 points will often double.


Disagree. I am rebidding on 765432. Reasons:
- Partner can have anywhere from 0-4 clubs. Given that partner didn't jump in spades, didn't bid michaels, and opener rebid diamonds, all these factors increase the probability partner has a couple clubs vs. zero. Plus more combos getting him strong enough to double and bid when holding club honor(s), rather than concentrated in the majors only.
- Even opposite just 1 small club, if you have a yarb, playing in clubs rates to contribute 2-3 tricks to the cause in terms of long trumps or ruffs or entry to lead toward partner's honors. As long as you gain 2 tricks you are net ahead of playing in 2s where you contribute zero tricks. You'll probably go down, but 2s often going down more.
- If partner has solid long spades and 0/1 club where you take more tricks in spades, reasonably often partner will try 3s. You've only lost ground if 2S or fewer was the limit. This and the ones where partner fails to correct to spades and is wrong are going to be far less frequent than the cases where partner comes up with 1-3 clubs and you have gained 2-3 tricks, in my estimation.

Worst case scenario would be partner has 0 ♣ opposite your 765432 suit, in which case, the most likely expected result is the loss of at least 4 tricks in the trump suit because a 4-3 break is the most probable. It could be more if the opponents get ruffs in their "short" trump hand. So the net of at least 2-3 tricks you foresee may be offset or more than offset additional trick losses in your own suit.

There's also an issue if the opponents can play a forcing defense and force you to lose control of the trump suit before you can draw trumps and set up partner's suit.

Some of those 5 card suit hands you say will double and rebid in a 5 card suit may opt to make an overcall anyway due to concerns of having to rebid at the 3 level with a less than at least semi-solid suit. That's a not infrequent theme in expert bidding quizzes. This probably more of an issue for suits other than ♠ because you can't be forced to the 3 level with any 2 level bid when holding ♠. But with something like AJx AQxxx xxx AK bidding 3 ♥ might be a tad difficult after something like:

1 ♦ - DBL - 1 ♠ - P
2 ♠ - ?

[nige1]

ArcLight, on 2017-October-08, 10:00, said:

How would you interpret this auction?You deal and pass with a weak hand holding 6 baby clubs and a stiff spade
_P (1♦) X_ (_P)
2♣ (2♦) 2♠ (_P)
?
What does pards 2S bid mean? How strong are they?
Do you pass pard in 2S with a weak hand?

Some expert partnerships agree that doubling and then bidding a new suit shows a good suit and a strong hand; unless the hand is very strong, it's vaguely shape-suitable for a double
e.g. ♠ A K Q x x ♥ A x x x ♦ x ♣ A x x.
With that agreement, it should be OK for advancer to rebid a 6-card suit, even with a weak hand.