[kenberg]

Watching an old movie recently, and those who have seen it may well guess which one, a question occurred to me.

Has anyone ever been convicted of murder when the means was deliberately frightening someone to death?

I believe that if an unplanned death, say from a heart attack, occurs during the commission of a felony, the person can be prosecuted, at least for manslaughter. But that's different. The attempt was robbery or some other crime, the death was not planned. I am supposing that the death by fear was in fact the plan. Obviously it would be a tricky plan to carry out, probably really only happening in the movies, but I guess it could happen.

Apologies for the initial typos, I was rushing.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2017-September-01, 13:09, said:

Watching an old movie recently, and those who have seen it may well guess which one, a question occurred to me.

Has anyone ever been convicted of murder when the means was deliberately frightening someone to death?

I believe that if an unplanned death, say from a heart attack, occurs during the commission of a felony, the persron can be prosecuted, at least for manslaughter. But that's different. The attempt was robbery or some other crime, the death was not planned. I am supposing that the death by fear was in fact the plan. Pbviouslyit would be a tricky plan to carry out, pronbaly really only happening in the movies, but I guess it could happen.

Election night 2016 comes to mind....

[Zelandakh]

How about this one Ken? Or closer to (your) home, this article speaks of some real life cases across The Pond, including this one for which the link appears to be broken. Not sure any of them are quite exactly what you are looking for though.

[mike777]

kenberg, on 2017-September-01, 13:09, said:

Watching an old movie recently, and those who have seen it may well guess which one, a question occurred to me.

Has anyone ever been convicted of murder when the means was deliberately frightening someone to death?

I believe that if an unplanned death, say from a heart attack, occurs during the commission of a felony, the person can be prosecuted, at least for manslaughter. But that's different. The attempt was robbery or some other crime, the death was not planned. I am supposing that the death by fear was in fact the plan. Obviously it would be a tricky plan to carry out, probably really only happening in the movies, but I guess it could happen.

Apologies for the initial typos, I was rushing.

interesting questions btw just off the top of my head was angela lansbury in the movie?

Perhaps not quite your question but I would expect there are many cases where someone deliberately induced fear in someone so that someone would kill them...think suicide by cop for example.

as to your question I would expect it would be difficult to convict them of murder...perhaps manslaughter or some lesser charge and conviction.
d
It might be difficult to proof in court that someone died from fear. If so I would expect it would be combined with poor health, a poor heart for example that already was damaged and fear leads to a panic attack which leads to a heart attack and then death.

Or you point a gun at someone and say jump and they jump and die out of fear of being shot or burned alive....Not sure if that counts as death by fear...

[steve2005]

kenberg, on 2017-September-01, 13:09, said:

I believe that if an unplanned death, say from a heart attack, occurs during the commission of a felony, the person can be prosecuted, at least for manslaughter.

Most jurisdictions you can get murder charge if someone dies during a crime. Even if you were a secondary figure in the crime and the death.

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2017-September-01, 15:25, said:

How about this one Ken? Or closer to (your) home, this article speaks of some real life cases across The Pond, including this one for which the link appears to be broken. Not sure any of them are quite exactly what you are looking for though.

They do not quite make the cut, if I read them correctly. Although the first one is closer. The intent was vicious, and the result was death, but it does not appear that the intent was "Let's scare him so that he dies of a heart attack".

To put it differently, the intent to kill was not really needed. They intended to harm, they intended to produce fear, and the actions constituted a felony whether the victim died or not. So when he died the required proof was that the felony was committed and that the person died.

I am seeking something where the intention was to cause death by fright, and the intention succeeded. Had the person not died, there would not be a felony unless the intent was clear enough to call it attempted murder through fright.No beating up of anyone.

I would say that the first one is sort of close.


In the movie, nobody assaults anyone or even threatens to assault anyone. There is simply ever increasing fear, created in the belief, the correct belief, that this will lead to death.

[kenberg]

mike777, on 2017-September-01, 16:04, said:

interesting questions btw just off the top of my head was angela lansbury in the movie?

.

Spoiler alert:



No, try early Simone Signoret. It is, I believe, the first foreign language film* I ever saw. And it's one of those that thought was great when I saw it and still think is great when I see it 60 years or so later.

* Unless you count British films

[mike777]

kenberg, on 2017-September-01, 18:23, said:

Spoiler alert:



No, try early Simone Signoret. It is, I believe, the first foreign language film* I ever saw. And it's one of those that thought was great when I saw it and still think is great when I see it 60 years or so later.

* Unless you count British films

ahh yes a truly great film....I understand


As I guessed the method....weak heart...induce panic attack which leads to heart attack which leads to death....


If we define death by fear as .....fear leads to panic attack which leads to death in some form other....a broad definition....sure it has happened...see my examples.

think the murder at the twin towers....fear...lead to panic lead to actions that created death....murderer never touched them...

[The_Badger]

http://blogs.findlaw...n-to-death.html

[cloa513]

The_Badger, on 2017-September-01, 23:12, said:

http://blogs.findlaw...n-to-death.html

None of those cases are simply scaring someone to death but in the context of another crime.

[Zelandakh]

cloa513, on 2017-September-02, 01:22, said:

None of those cases are simply scaring someone to death but in the context of another crime.

That is because this is typically the definition of felony murder in the states where it is legislated. A good write-up of the background and history can be found here.

[Zelandakh]

I have not been able to locate a direct case matching Ken's criteria. The closest is probably this case, where the soldiers were aware of the phobia. There is no evidence that they desired his death though. I think any real-life case would have to involve a condition such as hyperekplexia, since otherwise the mechanism is too unreliable for a planned murder.

The final case I have to offer is that of a woman killed by a jet-skier on Lake Lanier. Again there is no evidence that this was an intentional killing but if the heart condition had in fact been known in advance then it would presumably have qualified. I think I have reached the limit of my research on this. I have read many cases now, going back as far as 1888, but none with a preplanned murder by fear as desired. Perhaps someone else can unearth such a case.

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2017-September-02, 04:34, said:

I have not been able to locate a direct case matching Ken's criteria. The closest is probably this case, where the soldiers were aware of the phobia. There is no evidence that they desired his death though. I think any real-life case would have to involve a condition such as hyperekplexia, since otherwise the mechanism is too unreliable for a planned murder.

The final case I have to offer is that of a woman killed by a jet-skier on Lake Lanier. Again there is no evidence that this was an intentional killing but if the heart condition had in fact been known in advance then it would presumably have qualified. I think I have reached the limit of my research on this. I have read many cases now, going back as far as 1888, but none with a preplanned murder by fear as desired. Perhaps someone else can unearth such a case.

I remember some case like the one from the Navy you mention, I am not sure it is the same one. I realize that people who are going into battle need some serious training and I accept that some of it can be dangerous, but surely there should be some sort of limit. I had various anxieties when I was young, mostly they have withered away. For example I tried donating blood when I was 19 or so and fainted. I tried again and fainted again. Training would not have helped, patience until I matured was the answer. 19 is not a child, but it is not fully an adult either.

Ok, I am not really up for second guessing training programs, but they are dealing with the quite young.


Probably the reason it is difficult to find an example is that it would be a really bizarre way to try and kill someone. In the movie, he retired detective who realized what happened said that they would get 15-20 years in prison. I would hope so, but would they? I think a prosecutor could argue convincingly that the death was the intended consequence of the fright. A mitigating factor might be that the victim was involved in the initial part of it through her own choice..

Fiction writers often have extremely inventive ways to murder someone, but in other cases it seems that if it can be proved that they did it, the law would have no trouble getting them convicted. I imagine I could be convinced to vote guilty were I on the jury and maybe that's what it comes down to. A jury says "Very clever, guys. Guilty."

[barmar]

kenberg, on 2017-September-01, 13:09, said:

Has anyone ever been convicted of murder when the means was deliberately frightening someone to death?

Are you asking for movies where this happened, or wondering if this movie trope has ever actually happened in real life?

[kenberg]

barmar, on 2017-September-04, 09:23, said:

Are you asking for movies where this happened, or wondering if this movie trope has ever actually happened in real life?

The latter. In this particular movie, there was an explicit statement that the villains would get 15-20 years and it got me to wondering if this is really so. I suppose it could be phrased as asking where the borderline is. Suppose a parent takes out a large life insurance policy on, say, a 15 year old and then encourages the 15 year old to take up sky diving without providing any training. It would not be surprising if the kid died. Assuming that the parents did not rip the parachute or anything such as that is there a crime? Locally a boy of about that age is following in his father's footsteps earning money wrestling bulls. A family tradition, I guess. Not in my family, but I suppose it is none of my business. Of course in this case the intent is honorable rather than predatory.

It's just one of those things where II thought "Would they be found guilty if they committed no peripheral crime that would bring felony murder into play but simply, but scared her in the hope that this would stop her heart?"

It might depend on the details. In the movie the victim was known to have a weak heart.