[FelicityR]

---

Opponents are game up only in a best of three rubber. 2♠ is weak, 6-10 HCPs and presumably a 6 card suit (though my partner has occasionally opened a 5 card suit at this vulnerability too). I thought 4♠ was as sensible a bid to make given my poor holding, though it didn't stop the opponents finding their ♥ small slam.

I would be grateful for your thoughts on my 4♠ bid, and whether I should sacrifice in 6♠ immediately or later in the auction given that this is rubber bridge, not duplicate.

(By the way, I was scared of sacrificing as I didn't wish to push my opponents into a vulnerable grand slam which can be made.)

[ggwhiz]

Some kind of creative psyche on the way like a 3nt bid (and maybe a couple more after they double) MIGHT park them in a game but if not, at these colours my partner is declaring, period.

[broze]

ggwhiz, on 2017-March-27, 06:39, said:

Some kind of creative psyche on the way like a 3nt bid (and maybe a couple more after they double) MIGHT park them in a game but if not, at these colours my partner is declaring, period.

3NT coming from a passed hand is only going to broadcast your hand to any semi-competent opposition. Occasionally 3S can be a real winner on these hands but I prefer to just bid 4S and then keep saccing up to 7S.

[nige1]

FelicityR, on 2017-March-27, 05:57, said:

Opponents are game up only in a best of three rubber. 2♠ is weak, 6-10 HCPs and presumably a 6 card suit (though my partner has occasionally opened a 5 card suit at this vulnerability too). I thought 4♠ was as sensible a bid to make given my poor holding, though it didn't stop the opponents finding their ♥ small slam.
I would be grateful for your thoughts on my 4♠ bid, and whether I should sacrifice in 6♠ immediately or later in the auction given that this is rubber bridge, not duplicate.
(By the way, I was scared of sacrificing as I didn't wish to push my opponents into a vulnerable grand slam which can be made.)

---

After Pass (Pass) 2♠ X; ?? I rank

• 4♠ = PRE. Just right
• 3♠ = PRE. Too little
• 5♠ = PRE. Too much,
• Pass = NAT. Conceal the fit.
• Other = PSYCH. Might inflame opponents.

Whatever you choose now, you should probably pass later, hoping that the pre-empt has done it's work by leaving opponents at the wrong level or in the wrong strain. If you bid on, then it seems that, as you feared, you are committing yourself to 7♠ over their grand-slam.

[1eyedjack]

If psych might inflame opponents, why do you rank it 5th

[aawk]

If opponents make game or slam the robber (best of 3) is over so decision time what to do with robber tactics in mind.

According to the LAW and your holdings it at least game and most likely slam for opponents.

To keep the robber going your bid is 6♠ being a take out for a slam opponents haven't bid yet and are forced to find a fit at 7 level and hope it is the right contract and or made.

It is most likely you will get doubled in 6♠ and whatever the result still in the robber to fight another day.

Playing for MP I would bid 5s because opponents are more likely to double than bid slam.

Playing a teams (IMP) being behind bid 3nt to confuse opponents and hope the miss slam and if they get to 6x take out with 6♠ is still a option.

Playing a teams (IMP) being ahead bid 6♠ and see what happens and 7♠ is still a option as take out.

[GrahamJson]

Sacrificing is not generally recommended at rubber bridge. In this case you could easily go for 500 or 700 and still be 2/1 to lose the rubber, being one game down. And whilst it is likely that oppo have a slam, it is not a certainty. Partner could have a trump trick or you might even make a ruff. Then there are personal factors to consider. How good are your partner and the opposition? It would be silly to prolong a rubber if you were playing with a weak partner against strong opponents. Conversely a sacrifice is more tempting if your partner is a good player and opponents are not.

Playing imps you would almost certainly bid as high as you dare. However playing rubber it might be wiser to go quietly.

[Tramticket]

Psyching will probably not work. It is too late to pretend we have values (we are a passed hand).

I have the feeling that passing may work best now. Raising spades advertises our fit (and help opponents to understand their fit(s). If I am going to raise spades, 3♠ or 5♠ may work better than the obvious looking 4♠.

[eagles123]

I would just shoot 6s straight away, it's very hard for them to bid grand

[mycroft]

But what are the chances of winning the rubber? You have to win two games to one, or do enough damage to them vulnerable that you get back their games, their 500, and whatever their sacrifice is worth. Sure you get the 210 back, and the 750 slam bonus, and it's quite possible that if you sacrifice here, you may be only paying 500 rubber bonus rather than 700 - but that's 1200 or so. If you give up 500 or 700 in 7♠ (does rubber still use the old NV penalties?) that's half of that right there, for the chance of giving up another game on the next hand and paying out 820 more anyway. Or maybe you take the "only 300, partner" sac against that game, too, and now you're 1000 in the hole - and are *still* likely to be paying out 500 or 700 rubber bonus in the end.

I'm not a rubber player, but these are thoughts that duplicate players don't have to look at - and they're fascinating, and have been since at least Skid Simon. And part of his comment is "how much do you want the rubber to continue? If you're playing with Mrs. Guggenheim, you want the rubber to be over as fast as possible, pay out, and cut again - hopefully to be on the right side of the cut this time. And Mrs. Guggenheim wants you to do that too, because you're minimizing *her* losses, as well."

[nekthen]

Rubber bridge is a different game. I believe the only correct bid at rubber is to pass and hope they are content with game. All sorts of psychology is involved that may sway you though.
1. Is this mega bucks bridge or kitchen table bridge? Is it mega bucks equally for both pairs?
2. If the opps make rubber now will they play another or is it the last rubber of the session?

At duplicate you sacrifice because the result only relates to the hand in question. At rubber, if you sacrifice, you lose 700 or more, and you are still looking at losing the rubber. If by some miracle you make game on the next two hands you will still probably lose the rubber. Far better to concede this rubber and hope for better things in the next rubber, if you can afford to play another.

Now you know why your partner opens 5 carders sometimes! suppose the auction went 2♠ - pass - 4♠ - ? Now it is much harder for opps to find the contract and you have not risked much, but if they do, let them play it. You have done all you can.

[PhilG007]

nige1, on 2017-March-27, 15:59, said:

After Pass (Pass) 2♠ X; ?? I rank

• 4♠ = PRE. Just right
• 3♠ = PRE. Too little
• 5♠ = PRE. Too much,
• Pass = NAT. Conceal the fit.
• Other = PSYCH. Might inflame opponents.

Whatever you choose now, you should probably pass later, hoping that the pre-empt has done it's work by leaving opponents at the wrong level or in the wrong strain. If you bid on, then it seems that, as you feared, you are committing yourself to 7♠ over their grand-slam.

I would bid on and on with the North hand,even bidding 7♠ over the opponents grand slam in another suit. It might seem suicidal but look at it this way.
Partner has opened a weak two and you have only 2 points so there MUST be a grand slam the other way. BUT your side has one standing advantage,you own the spade suit.
Spades are the emperor of all the suits,always keeping you one step ahead of the opposition. You can afford to go down minus 6 and still come out with a good result.

[wank]

the value of continuing the rubber is worse than -350 (50% of -700 for losing a fast rubber, 25% of -500 for losing a slow rubber and 25% +500 for winning a slow rubber, plus the opps have extra equity from being vul in terms of possibly getting dealt another slam hand).

to assess the value of a save you effectively need to add that onto the penalty you concede. considering a vul grand is 1640+ though i think you've got a fat margin to work with in terms of finding a useful sacrifice.

[msjennifer]

I never ever played rubber bridge so it is too naive for me to comment on the given situation and yet I shall try.I shall first ask if they play lebensohl.If they do then I feel that a low level prevention will not work.There are 2 options available as per my judgement 1) Pass so as not to disclose the fit.and 2) an adventurous 5NT which "may "stop them from bidding a grand.

[FelicityR]

Again thank you for all your replies. I know what I would do at duplicate, but rubber is such a different game as a number of commentators have indicated. West had an extraordinary hand...

---

[PhilG007]

FelicityR, on 2017-March-29, 04:15, said:

Again thank you for all your replies. I know what I would do at duplicate, but rubber is such a different game as a number of commentators have indicated. West had an extraordinary hand...

---

Looking at the West hand,it seems 7Hearts is a very good contract for the opponents,so a save
of 7 Spades is well justified.(even if you are missing the ace of trumps(!)

[forgo]

I bid 3 hearts or 3 diamonds .. 3 hearts against weaker opponents and 3 diamonds against stronger... hoping to keep them out of slam!! I can

sac @ 5 spades if need be ... but will not sac at 6 , they may have a grand slam!! too big a risk @ .10 cents/point..

[dave_beer]

I would try a simple 3♠. What I am hoping for is that advancer doesn't have enough to drive past game with 4♠, 4NT or 5♥ and that doubler doesn't have enough extras to invite slam over 4♥.

[miamijd]

Rubber bridge is a very different animal, but in this case, I think the answer is the same as at MP or IMPs.

You want to put the opponents to a guess. You know they can make a game, and you know that you can probably make at least 9 tricks in spades (likely you lose one trick in each red and two clubs). Can they make a slam? Who knows. Maybe partner has two defensive tricks for his third-seat opener (third-seat 2 bids can be wide-ranging). Maybe East plays 6H and partner has the Ad. Maybe a lot of things.

I would bid 5S immediately. You shouldn't go for more than 300 if they double, which even in rubber bridge is better than letting them score up a 2-0 rubber. If they bid slam, maybe you can beat it. But they will have no room to explore anything. They will have to make an immediate guess with no bidding room at all.

Bidding 4S doesn't do the job. West has a lot of bids at his disposal: X, 4NT (two-suited), 5S, and the like. Bidding 6S is unilateral, because now you are the one who has guessed. The opponents will just X, and you'll have to hope you guessed right. And 6S is likely to go for at least 500, maybe 800.

5S gets my vote at any form of scoring. On a good day, the opponents X, partner shows up with:

AKJxxx
xxx
xxxx
void

spades are 1-1, clubs are 4-3, and 5SX comes rolling home

Cheers,
mike