[sfi]

cherdano, on 2016-July-19, 03:39, said:

Just what sfi said.

I knew I'd eventually find someone that agreed with something I said on this thread.

[MrAce]

helene_t, on 2016-July-19, 01:45, said:

If you don't bid 4d with this hand when will you ever?

Well said.

You should bid 4♦ when it is not solid and you should not when it is solid.
Sounds pretty nice to ears on forums, isn't it? Because at forums partner knows that your DBL is asking ♥ stopper, not a take out when it is convenient. And knows it is take out when it is also convenient and accurate.
This auction can proceed in many different ways and starting DBL can lead to a complete disaster. But who cares? After all we found a way to allow pd to bid 3 NT when he has a stopper and he does not have better responses than just bidding 3 NT with a ♥ stopper in many hands.

I am not even mentioning the unlikelihood of finding pd with a stopper when they open 3♥ at these colors. Hell...I will not even mention the likelihood of a ♣ lead when pd actually have good ♥ stoppers, or the small possibility that ♦ are not as solid as we think they are. Oh and I thought OP mentioned the MP and game bonuses do not pay as much as imps.

Oh! Did I mention the possibility of dbl being converted due to the colors? I have defended with worse hands than this, I admit! But that does not make me hopeful if we end up defending.

I ♥ BBF!

sfi, on 2016-July-16, 09:53, said:

It seems like the frequency of a succesful 3NT bid from partner, along with the chances of getting to spades when it is right, outweigh the frequency of missing diamonds when that's the right spot.

This is a very good example of how can 2 people look at same hand and colors and same auction but think totally the opposite. Of course we all guess that is the case since it is asked in forums. That pd has a ♥ stopper and starting DBL will be fine for this hand in forums. In real life, it's another story.

[neilkaz]

For me 4♦>X>pass>3nt.

[Wackojack]

---

This went 2 off when 3NT by either is a comfortable make. C'est la vie

[MrAce]

Wackojack, on 2016-July-23, 04:12, said:

This went 2 off when 3NT by either is a comfortable make. C'est la vie

Quote

This is a very good example of how can 2 people look at same hand and colors and same auction but think totally the opposite. Of course we all guess that is the case since it is asked in forums. That pd has a♥stopper and starting DBL will be fine for this hand in forums. In real life, it's another story.

C'est la vie

[Wackojack]

I might add that this was "real life" and it was me that bid 4♦. "C'est la vie"

[MrAce]

Wackojack, on 2016-July-23, 05:16, said:

I might add that this was "real life" and it was me that bid 4♦. "C'est la vie"

So you prove my point. In real life people do not DBL with this.

[sfi]

MrAce, on 2016-July-23, 05:26, said:

So you prove my point. In real life people do not DBL with this.

Meh. I'm still comfortable with my choice.

[MrAce]

sfi, on 2016-July-23, 07:03, said:

Meh. I'm still comfortable with my choice.

I do not even think DBL is an option. But I will poll it to see how many good players actually DBL with this.

[cherdano]

MrAce, on 2016-July-19, 05:35, said:

Well said.

You should bid 4♦ when it is not solid and you should not when it is solid.
Sounds pretty nice to ears on forums, isn't it? Because at forums partner knows that your DBL is asking ♥ stopper, not a take out when it is convenient. And knows it is take out when it is also convenient and accurate.
This auction can proceed in many different ways and starting DBL can lead to a complete disaster. But who cares? After all we found a way to allow pd to bid 3 NT when he has a stopper and he does not have better responses than just bidding 3 NT with a ♥ stopper in many hands.

I am not even mentioning the unlikelihood of finding pd with a stopper when they open 3♥ at these colors. Hell...I will not even mention the likelihood of a ♣ lead when pd actually have good ♥ stoppers, or the small possibility that ♦ are not as solid as we think they are.

Relax.
I don't know what is right on this hand. But this looks like a hand where we often belong in game. And the two most likely games are 3N and 4S - probably in that order. To make 3N, we need a stopper and a trick from partner. To make 5D we need partner to cover 4 of our 6 losers. I know which one I think is more likely.

And as you point out, this is MP. If we belong in a part score, are you sure it is 4D, not 3S?

Obviously, 4D is the most disaster proof bid. If they have us outgunned, 4D will probably be down less than whatever they are making in hearts. But it puts a lot of eggs in one basket.