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SCOTUS after Scalia

#1 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-February-13, 16:47

View Posty66, on 2016-February-13, 16:43, said:



This is going to set up an interesting political fight.

Is it better to try to get a flawed replacement seated immediately or wait until the Democrats retake the Senate. (I lean towards nominating a strong progressive and use the fillibuster to drum up enthusiasm for the 2016 elections)

Wonder what to overturn first? Heller, Critizen's United? Such a long list...

(Good thing there's no need to worry about stare decisis any more)
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#2 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-13, 19:31

View Posthrothgar, on 2016-February-13, 16:47, said:

This is going to set up an interesting political fight.

Is it better to try to get a flawed replacement seated immediately or wait until the Democrats retake the Senate. (I lean towards nominating a strong progressive and use the fillibuster to drum up enthusiasm for the 2016 elections)

Wonder what to overturn first? Heller, Critizen's United? Such a long list...

(Good thing there's no need to worry about stare decisis any more)


Yes, interesting. But because of the Leahy-Reed-Obama judical power play, there will be no appointment, unless there is a truly consensus nominee, until the next president is elected.

Would you explain your comment re: stare decisis?
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-February-13, 19:40

View PostFlem72, on 2016-February-13, 19:31, said:

Would you explain your comment re: stare decisis?


Over the past 15 years, the Supreme Court threw stare decisis out the window.
It's not going to be resurrected once the current conservative majority is gone.
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#4 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-13, 20:41

View Posthrothgar, on 2016-February-13, 19:40, said:

Over the past 15 years, the Supreme Court threw stare decisis out the window.
It's not going to be resurrected once the current conservative majority is gone.


Can you please give some supporting argument for this alleged out the window throwing?I imagine you can come up with a url to someone else's assessment?
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#5 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 05:09

View PostFlem72, on 2016-February-13, 20:41, said:

Can you please give some supporting argument for this alleged out the window throwing?I imagine you can come up with a url to someone else's assessment?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q...a+stare+decisis

Here are a couple choice quotes:

"The Court's reliance upon stare decisis can best be described as contrived. It insists upon the necessity of adhering not to all of Roe, but only to what it calls the 'central holding.' It seems to me that stare decisis ought to be applied even to the doctrine of stare decisis, and I confess never to have heard of this new, keep-what-you-want-and-throw-away-the-rest version."

"Stare decisis is not . . . a universal, inexorable command, especially in cases involving the interpretation of the Federal Constitution."

In any case, live by the sword, die by the sword...
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#6 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 11:20

View Posthrothgar, on 2016-February-14, 07:10, said:

When remembering Scalia, the following quote seems apropos: "And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

Scalia had no respect for precedence or stare decisis. In turn, this is why his own decisions are built on sand...


I can't figure out whether you think stare decisis -- which, btw, is a fairly complex legal doctrine, SCOTUS discussions of which reach pretty rareified heights-- is a good thing or a bad thing ? or good when it goes your (political) way and bad when it doesn't go your (political) way?

I assume you think Brown v. Board properly applied stare decisis in overruling Plessy v Ferguson?
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#7 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 12:55

View PostFlem72, on 2016-February-14, 11:20, said:

I assume you think Brown v. Board properly applied stare decisis in overruling Plessy v Ferguson?

As Lawrence v Texas properly overruled Bowers v. Hardwick.
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#8 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 12:59

View PostFlem72, on 2016-February-13, 19:31, said:

Yes, interesting. But because of the Leahy-Reed-Obama judical power play, there will be no appointment, unless there is a truly consensus nominee, until the next president is elected.

Would you explain your comment re: stare decisis?


Or, as incoming head of the Senate Democrats, Schumer could threaten removing filibuster from SC nominations, too, which would give Mitch M pause because the Senate is not nearly so favorable to Rebuplican re-elections.
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#9 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 13:43

From Scalia’s Putsch at the Supreme Court by Linda Greenhouse (Jan 21, 2016)

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IN his vitriolic dissent last June from the Supreme Court’s same-sex marriage decision, Justice Antonin Scalia accused the majority of having carried out a “judicial putsch.” Justice Scalia should know. He and his four conservative colleagues were then in the process of executing one themselves.

On June 30, four days after handing down the marriage decision, Obergefell v. Hodges, the court announced that it would hear a major challenge to the future of public-employee labor unions. That case, Friedrichs v. California Teachers Association, was argued last week. As was widely reported, the outcome appears foreordained: the court will vote 5 to 4 to overturn a precedent that for 39 years has permitted public-employee unions to charge nonmembers a “fair-share” fee representing the portion of union dues that go to representing all employees in collective bargaining and grievance proceedings. As the exclusive bargaining agent, a union has a legal duty to represent everyone in the unit, whether members or not; the fee addresses the problem of “free riders” and the resentment engendered by those who accept the union’s help while letting their fellow workers foot the bill.

The stakes are obviously high for the millions of workers and thousands of contracts covered by these arrangements in the 23 states that now permit them. If the court accepts the argument that the mandatory fees amount to compelled speech in violation of the objecting employees’ First Amendment rights, public-employee unions would forfeit hundreds of millions of dollars in dues revenue. New York and 20 other states filed a brief in support of California, which is defending its fair-share system, to argue that these provisions “are important to ensuring a stable collective-bargaining partner with the wherewithal to help devise workplace arrangements that promote labor peace.”

I want to focus here, however, not on the implications the Friedrichs case holds for the public workplace, but on what it means for the Supreme Court. Actually, I couldn’t express my concern better than Justice Stephen G. Breyer did last week when he questioned Michael A. Carvin, the lawyer for the 10 California teachers who are challenging the state’s labor law. Justice Breyer was referring to the compromise at the heart of the 1977 precedent, Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, that Mr. Carvin was asking the court to overrule. The court in that case upheld the constitutionality of the fair-share fee as long as it was limited to the union’s collective-bargaining expenses and did not subsidize the union’s political or other “nonchargeable” activities.

“What is it, in your mind,” Justice Breyer asked Mr. Carvin, “that you can say from the point of view of this court’s role in this society in that if — of course, we can overrule a compromise that was worked out over 40 years and has lasted reasonably well …” The justice ruminated for a moment on his own practice of filing dissenting opinions, and then returned to his point: “You start overruling things, what happens to the country thinking of us as a kind of stability in a world that is tough because it changes a lot?”

Indeed. Exactly seven years ago, in a public-employee labor case from Maine, Justice Breyer wrote an opinion that cited the Abood decision and included this sentence: “The First Amendment permits the government to require both public sector and private sector employees who do not wish to join a union designated as the exclusive collective-bargaining representative at their unit of employment to pay that union a service fee as a condition of their continued employment.”

The opinion continued: “The court has determined that the First Amendment burdens accompanying the payment requirement are justified by the government’s interest in preventing free riding by nonmembers who benefit from the union’s collective bargaining activities and in maintaining peaceful labor relations.”

The case was Locke v. Karass. The decision was unanimous.

What changed since 2009? How could the court go from unquestioning acceptance of a long-lived precedent to a situation in which all that remains in doubt is whether that same precedent will be overturned in early June or late June? In the answer to that question lie some disturbing observations about the Roberts court.

It’s no secret that in recent years, major segments of the Republican Party have declared open season on public employee unions — selectively, of course. Police unions and correctional officers’ unions, which have stood in the way of reform-minded policy initiatives in states and cities across the country, have been exempt as targets. Conservative and Tea Party ire has instead been focused on teachers’ unions. It’s not an accident that when Mr. Carvin (a leading figure behind the two failed challenges to the Affordable Care Act) and the right-wing foundations supporting his lawsuit set out to recruit plaintiffs, they looked for teachers and not prison guards.

Reading the transcript of last week’s argument, I felt as though I had stumbled into the inner sanctum of Wisconsin’s union-busting governor, Scott Walker. Both Justice Scalia and Justice Anthony M. Kennedy suggested that when it comes to public employment, there can be no real distinction between a union’s workplace activities and its political activities.

“The problem is that everything that is collectively bargained with the government is within the political sphere, almost by definition,” Justice Scalia said, addressing Edward C. Dumont, California’s solicitor general.

Justice Kennedy elaborated at length: “It’s almost axiomatic. When you are dealing with a governmental agency, many critical points are matters of public concern. And is it not true that many teachers strongly, strongly disagree with the union position on teacher tenure, on merit pay, on merit promotion, on classroom size?” He continued: “The term is ‘free rider.’ The union basically is making these teachers ‘compelled riders’ for issues on which they strongly disagree.”

That’s about as unconstrained and revealing a rant as I’ve heard from the Supreme Court bench. It happens also to be based on some false premises. California labor law does not in fact permit collective bargaining over teacher tenure or standards for termination or budget-driven layoffs. I’m no expert on California labor law; I read it in the union’s brief. But the details hardly matter. What matters is the glaring anti-union animus and the obvious fact that if everything a public employee union does is deemed political, the Abood compromise, based on a distinction between collective-bargaining activities and everything else, necessarily collapses.

And what exactly is it about the California teachers union’s activities that the plaintiffs find objectionable? Impossible to say. The initial complaint referred only to their dislike of “many of the union’s public policy positions, including positions taken in collective bargaining,” but the plaintiffs refused to be more specific or to cooperate with the union in developing an evidentiary record. Instead, the plaintiffs under Mr. Carvin’s direction sought to lose the case as quickly as possible, to speed it on its way to the Supreme Court. They asked the Federal District Court to rule against them, which it did, and they then asked the United States Court of Appeals to affirm that negative judgment, which it promptly did in a two-page summary opinion, observing that the outcome was “governed by controlling Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit precedent.”

To call this litigation pathway unusual is an understatement. But it was hardly a shot in the dark. In majority opinions in 2012 and again in 2014, Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. — yes, the same Justice Alito who signed Justice Breyer’s opinion back in 2009 — suggested that he was ready and willing to revisit the Abood precedent. In the more recent case, Harris v. Quinn, he called Abood “troubling” and “questionable on several grounds.” But neither of those two cases offered a target for a direct hit. The current case was manufactured to serve that role.

If the political atmosphere surrounding public employee unions has changed, so has the court’s vision of the role of the First Amendment. The court issued the Citizens United decision, with its embrace of a First Amendment right to unlimited corporate (and union) political spending, a year to the day after Justice Breyer’s opinion in the Maine labor case. In the intervening six years, the Roberts court has waved the First Amendment banner ever higher to undermine long-accepted governmental regulatory authority. Not too long ago, it was federalism — states’ rights — that seemed to energize conservatives on the Supreme Court. The Abood regime is in fact more than respectful of states’ rights: states are enabled but not required to adopt a fair-share fee system, and 22 states have chosen against it. But federalism can’t save the unions from the ever more powerful First Amendment.

So what we have here are the majority’s policy preferences conveniently clad in First Amendment armor. But even the best armor is vulnerable, and as the court strides recklessly into a danger zone, I’m left with Justice Breyer’s question: What’s the country to think?

What's the country to think? Indeed.
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#10 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 15:36

From Justice Antonin Scalia’s Supreme Court Legacy by the NYT Editorial Board:

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Justice Antonin Scalia, who died on Saturday at the age of 79, served on the Supreme Court for 30 years and made as big a mark on the court and on American law and politics as some of the chief justices under whom he served. It took about 10 minutes after the announcement of his death for the right wing to start screaming that the Senate should not confirm a replacement while President Obama is in office.

Given how blindly ideological the Republicans in the Senate are, after nearly eight years of doing little besides trying to thwart Mr. Obama, it is disturbingly likely that Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader and architect of the just-say-no approach, will lead his colleagues in keeping Justice Scalia’s seat open, and the highest court in the land essentially paralyzed, in the hope that one of the hard-right Republicans running for the presidency will win.

Mr. McConnell announced on Saturday night that “this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president,” claiming that he wanted to give American voters the chance to decide.

Later, Mr. Obama spoke, recognizing Justice Scalia as a “towering” figure in American law. He “will be remembered as one of the most consequential judges and thinkers” on the Supreme Court, he said. Mr. Obama said he would nominate a successor and called on the Senate “to fulfill its responsibility to give that person a fair hearing and a timely vote.”

Justice Scalia, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan in 1986 to fill an associate justice seat when William Rehnquist was elevated to chief justice, was more than any other conservative justice responsible for bringing ideology to the foreground in the court’s deliberations and, sometimes, its decisions. The conservative justices who preceded him, including Justice Rehnquist, and who followed him, like Anthony Kennedy, were not ideological animals in the same sense as Justice Scalia.

The originalist, fundamentalist constitutional ideas that have driven many of the court’s decisions were more the product of Mr. Scalia’s intellect and politics than of the other conservative justices, including Justice Clarence Thomas and Chief Justice John Roberts. Justice Scalia wrote few of the divided court’s 5-to-4 decisions, perhaps because the chief justices were aware that Justice Scalia’s lack of self-control in his judgments made him unreliable in those cases.

One prominent exception was his majority decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, in which the court ruled for the first time that the Second Amendment granted an individual right to bear arms. But Justice Scalia did say that that right was not absolute, and that certain weapons like assault rifles could be banned, but the case still set the court’s fundamentalist approach to gun rights.

From abortion rights to marriage equality and desegregation, Justice Scalia opposed much of the social and political progress of the late 20th century and this one. He wanted to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision on women’s rights to privacy, he dissented on the decision that said anti-sodomy laws were unconstitutional, and he dissented on decisions that it was unconstitutional to execute mentally disabled or teenage prisoners. He disapproved of the Miranda decision that requires police to read prisoners their rights.

Volumes have been written about various courts — the Warren Court, the Rehnquist Court, the Roberts Court. But in many ways the current conservative majority, whose decisions often reflect an originalist view of the Constitution, can be seen as the Scalia Court.

The question now is whether the Senate will honor Justice Scalia’s originalist view of the Constitution by allowing President Obama to appoint a successor, and providing its advice and consent in good faith. Or will the Republicans be willing to create a constitutional crisis and usurp the authority of the president to ensure that the Supreme Court functions as one branch of this government?

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#11 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 16:01

View Posty66, on 2016-February-14, 13:43, said:

From Scalia's Putsch at the Supreme Court by Linda Greenhouse (Jan 21, 2016)
What's the country to think? Indeed.


See, now you made me gonna hafta read those opinions if only to see whether this author -- apparently a distinguished lawyer -- is delivering the analysis on them. And that will not be fun.

But judging from this line- "From abortion rights to marriage equality and desegregation, Justice Scalia opposed much of the social and political progress of the late 20th century and this one." - we are dealing with a Progressive who may or may not be a forthright analyst of appellate opinions, but certainly knows what constitutes progress. She also seems to care little about the heart of conservative originalism: The Constitution was not intended to deal with 99% of social issues, and only those political issues that strike at the fundamental structure of our government.

"The question now is whether the Senate will honor Justice Scalia’s originalist view of the Constitution by allowing President Obama to appoint a successor, and providing its advice and consent in good faith. Or will the Republicans be willing to create a constitutional crisis and usurp the authority of the president to ensure that the Supreme Court functions as one branch of this government?" Twisty, twisty. Whether a nominee will be seated has zero to do with constitutional interpretation, and everything to do with political payback; there is no usurpation involved in delivering "advice and consent" in a way that searches for a true consensus nominee.

Now I'm betting she has misrepresented the contrast between the two cases at the center of her article. Sigh. Gonna hafta....

EDIT: NOT a lawyer after all, but a lefty journalist with a Yale degree for those "who want to obtain a basic familiarity with legal thought and to explore the relation of law to their disciplines."

This post has been edited by Flem72: 2016-February-14, 16:26

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#12 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 17:11

Nah, I will not read legal briefs. But I imagine very few voters do, so we legal ignoramuses will work it all through without that.

I am thinking that there might be a real opportunity here. Presumable this opening has not caught Obama et al completely flatfooted. Well, we can hope. They could select a very well-qualified candidate who is neither a darling of the left or a darling of the right, and submit his/her name. If, as I don't expect, the candidate would be accepted then this would obviously be good. If, as I do expect, the nomination would be pronounced DOA, then this would give the fall voters something to think about. This gambit only works if the conditions are met. Very high qualifications, no heavy tilt in either, or any, political direction.

Yes, political tilt can be in the eye of the beholder but I think that there are quite a few people, Republicans and Democrats, who can recognize a nomination based on talent rather than ideology when they see one. It's worth a shot. And the more they shut up with the spin and the more they get down to it, the better.
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#13 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 17:27

View Postkenberg, on 2016-February-14, 17:11, said:

Nah, I will not read legal briefs. But I imagine very few voters do, so we legal ignoramuses will work it all through without that.

I am thinking that there might be a real opportunity here. Presumable this opening has not caught Obama et al completely flatfooted. Well, we can hope. They could select a very well-qualified candidate who is neither a darling of the left or a darling of the right, and submit his/her name. If, as I don't expect, the candidate would be accepted then this would obviously be good. If, as I do expect, the nomination would be pronounced DOA, then this would give the fall voters something to think about. This gambit only works if the conditions are met. Very high qualifications, no heavy tilt in either, or any, political direction.

Yes, political tilt can be in the eye of the beholder but I think that there are quite a few people, Republicans and Democrats, who can recognize a nomination based on talent rather than ideology when they see one. It's worth a shot. And the more they shut up with the spin and the more they get down to it, the better.


I've heard folks suggest that Obama should nominate Richard Posner just to see what would happen...
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#14 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 17:52

View PostFlem72, on 2016-February-14, 16:01, said:

See, now you made me gonna hafta read those opinions if only to see whether this author -- apparently a distinguished lawyer -- is delivering the analysis on them. And that will not be fun.

But judging from this line- "From abortion rights to marriage equality and desegregation, Justice Scalia opposed much of the social and political progress of the late 20th century and this one." - we are dealing with a Progressive who may or may not be a forthright analyst of appellate opinions, but certainly knows what constitutes progress. She also seems to care little about the heart of conservative originalism: The Constitution was not intended to deal with 99% of social issues, and only those political issues that strike at the fundamental structure of our government.

"The question now is whether the Senate will honor Justice Scalia’s originalist view of the Constitution by allowing President Obama to appoint a successor, and providing its advice and consent in good faith. Or will the Republicans be willing to create a constitutional crisis and usurp the authority of the president to ensure that the Supreme Court functions as one branch of this government?" Twisty, twisty. Whether a nominee will be seated has zero to do with constitutional interpretation, and everything to do with political payback; there is no usurpation involved in delivering "advice and consent" in a way that searches for a true consensus nominee.

Now I'm betting she has misrepresented the contrast between the two cases at the center of her article. Sigh. Gonna hafta....

EDIT: NOT a lawyer after all, but a lefty journalist with a Yale degree for those "who want to obtain a basic familiarity with legal thought and to explore the relation of law to their disciplines."

How much would you like to bet?

Linda Greenhouse may very well be a lefty, progressive type but she also has some law cred. According to her bio posted at Yale Law School, she is also

Quote

the Knight Distinguished Journalist in Residence and Joseph Goldstein Lecturer in Law at Yale Law School. She covered the Supreme Court for The New York Times between 1978 and 2008 and writes a biweekly op-ed column on law as a contributing columnist. In 2002, the American Political Science Association gave her its Carey McWilliams Award for “a major journalistic contribution to our understanding of politics.” Her books include a biography of Justice Harry A. Blackmun, Becoming Justice Blackmun; Before Roe v. Wade: Voices That Shaped the Abortion Debate Before the Supreme Court's Ruling (with Reva B. Siegel); and The U.S. Supreme Court, A Very Short Introduction, published by Oxford University Press in 2012. A new book, The Burger Court and the Rise of the Judicial Right, with Michael J. Graetz, will be published in 2016. Ms. Greenhouse is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, where she serves on the council, and is one of two non-lawyer honorary members elected to the American Law Institute, which in 2002 awarded her its Henry J. Friendly Medal. She is a vice president of the Council of the American Philosophical Society, which in 2005 awarded her its Henry Allen Moe Prize for writing in the humanities and jurisprudence. She has been awarded eleven honorary degrees. She is a 1968 graduate of Radcliffe College (Harvard), where she was elected to Phi Beta Kappa, and she currently serves on the Phi Beta Kappa national senate. She earned a Master of Studies in Law degree from Yale Law School (1978), which she attended on a Ford Foundation fellowship. She is married to Eugene R. Fidell, Florence Rogatz Lecturer in Law at Yale.

This post-mortem salute to Dr. John C. Willke is one of the most amazing things I've ever read. It starts thusly:

Quote

The obituaries, at least the ones I saw, for Dr. John C. Willke, the former president of the National Right to Life Committee, featured his kooky (and politically toxic) notion that rape can’t lead to pregnancy. But this hugely effective strategist of the anti-abortion movement, who died on Feb. 20 at 89, deserved a better send-off. That’s the purpose of this column.

Granted, I’m not the most obvious writer to be offering Jack Willke a post-mortem salute, given my own commitment to the abortion rights side of the public argument that he conducted for close to 50 years. But that’s actually the point. It’s easy for any social movement to demonize its adversaries — or, even worse, to ignore them. It’s harder to acknowledge an adversary’s brilliance, and a great deal more useful to learn from it.

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#15 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 18:15

View Posty66, on 2016-February-14, 17:52, said:

How much would you like to bet?

Linda Greenhouse may very well be a lefty, progressive type but she also has some law cred. According to her bio posted at Yale Law School, she is also



We shall see. I do not think she is not an established, honored journalist; I know nothing concrete about her biases, if any, or her activist tendencies, if any. But that last paragraph, twisty as it is, makes me think she wrote the article right after getting off the phone with Josh Earnest.
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#16 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 18:17

View Posthrothgar, on 2016-February-14, 17:27, said:

I've heard folks suggest that Obama should nominate Richard Posner just to see what would happen...


I'd like that. "Bork" is a verb.
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Posted 2016-February-14, 18:30

Want your head to explode? Ted Cruz.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#18 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 19:21

View Postkenrexford, on 2016-February-14, 18:30, said:

Want your head to explode? Ted Cruz.


Got duct tape? Two rolls please. I've been reading flem72's posts too.
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#19 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-February-14, 21:50

Justice Ted Cruz. The Art of the Deal.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#20 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-February-15, 04:39

I think the Dems should nominate a true radical knowing there is zero chance of them getting ratified during this term but preparing the ground for Hilary to push them through next time around with a strong mandate that would be difficult for the Reps to rebuke in the aftermath of a general election defeat.
(-: Zel :-)
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