[mgoetze]

Boye Brogeland yesterday on BridgeWinners:

Quote

“This is not the end. This is not even the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps the end of the beginning” - Winston Churchill

We will never get another chance like this to clean up the game. It's for everybody to fight the good fight and do the right thing. For the future of our wonderful game.

PS. Stay tuned - bridge history is in the making.

Wonder whether that means Fischer-Schwartz aren't the only pair who are going to get his attention.

[MrAce]

mgoetze, on 2015-September-06, 08:24, said:

Boye Brogeland yesterday on BridgeWinners:



Wonder whether that means Fischer-Schwartz aren't the only pair who are going to get his attention.

They already said F-S is not the only pair at top level. Meckstroth said there is not too many at the top level. And when asked he said "Less than 5" and Geoff Hampson replied "Now less than 4"
I do not think you and I will know which pairs until they publish them with evidence. I have a feeling though that top level worldclass players are in cooperation and trying their best to make a big clean. We will see.

[nige1]

nige1, on 2015-September-05, 09:09, said:

Hrothgar says "The WBF then video recorded the Doctors in another event," Please can somebody provide a link to the Cavendish video-recordings (if any).

mgoetze, on 2015-September-05, 09:13, said:

There is no video, there was just an observer who confirmed the findings.

A pity because video evidence (or even audio-tapes) can help. In the Reese Schapiro case, The American team deciphered the R-S finger-code. Selected observers were told the the code and confirmed it by taking notes of a subsequent set of boards. Unfortunately, the American team coach, Sami Kehela, who was also told the code, carefully watched the same boards and observed no correlation. ..

[johnu]

nige1, on 2015-September-06, 09:36, said:

A pity because video evidence (or even audio-tapes) can help. In the Reese Schapiro case, The American team deciphered the R-S finger-code. Selected observers were told the the code and confirmed it by taking notes of a subsequent set of boards. Unfortunately, the American team coach, Sami Kehela, who was also told the code, carefully watched the same boards and observed no correlation. ..

According to Truscott, Kehela testified in London that he was convinced Reese-Schapiro were signalling while in Buenos Aires. He changed his mind by the time he testified in London, admitted he hadn't taken notes at the time, but still reported 40 to 50% correspondence with the heart length code. So, even Kehela admitted that Reese-Schapiro were varying the number of fingers while holding their hands which is a very rare occurrence among bridge players, and 50% is still a very high percentage if you aren't matching up finger signals with hand records.

[Trinidad]

Trinidad, on 2015-September-05, 08:41, said:

Funny detail: With Israel withdrawing, the likely scenario will be that teh WBF asks the EBL to send an other team. The EBL will then select the number 7 from the list. This team is Sweden... with Cullin and Bertheu who as I understand it) cracked the FS code... (together with Magnus Magnusson from Iceland).

Their hard code cracking work may have earned them a place in the Bermuda Bowl.

Rik

Sweden will play in the Bermuda Bowl, but Bertheau and Cullin will not be on the team, according to PG Eliasson, the Swedish team captain:

The team will consist of :

Quote

Fredrik Nyström - Johan Upmark
Frederic Wrang - Johan Sylvan
Tommy Bergdahl - Niklas Warne
Captain/Coach Jan Lagerman

Rik

[PhilKing]

MrAce, on 2015-September-06, 09:02, said:

They already said F-S is not the only pair at top level. Meckstroth said there is not too many at the top level. And when asked he said "Less than 5" and Geoff Hampson replied "Now less than 4"
I do not think you and I will know which pairs until they publish them with evidence. I have a feeling though that top level worldclass players are in cooperation and trying their best to make a big clean. We will see.

Get plenty of popcorn ready - I have a feeling it's going to be a big weekend.

[diana_eva]

PhilKing, on 2015-September-07, 07:50, said:

Get plenty of popcorn ready - I have a feeling it's going to be a big weekend.

Perhaps the show won't be open to public this time.

[Trinidad]

diana_eva, on 2015-September-07, 08:28, said:

Perhaps the show won't be open to public this time.

Popcorn is always yummy... with or without a show.

Rik

[MrAce]

diana_eva, on 2015-September-07, 08:28, said:

Perhaps the show won't be open to public this time.

Well if that is the case Diana, you can always bring PHIL the BIL mentor and we have our very own show right here.

[nige1]

johnu, on 2015-September-06, 18:10, said:

According to Truscott, Kehela testified in London that he was convinced Reese-Schapiro were signalling while in Buenos Aires. He changed his mind by the time he testified in London, admitted he hadn't taken notes at the time, but still reported 40 to 50% correspondence with the heart length code. So, even Kehela admitted that Reese-Schapiro were varying the number of fingers while holding their hands which is a very rare occurrence among bridge players, and 50% is still a very high percentage if you aren't matching up finger signals with hand records.

Truscott's account differs from Reese's. Both might well be biased: Reese was the co-accused; Truscott was married to the the American team-member, who originated the accusations. Reese says he based his version on counsel's contemporary notes. Kehela concluded that R-S were innocent.

What is relevant to recent cheating allegations is that, even when spectators are told the code, their observations can disagree, significantly. IMO, this makes video-corroboration important. .

[nige1]

diana_eva, on 2015-September-07, 08:28, said:

Perhaps the show won't be open to public this time.

I hope that appropriate authorities work quickly to collect available evidence and to conduct thorough investigations before going public.

[Trinidad]

nige1, on 2015-September-07, 11:34, said:

What is relevant to recent cheating allegations is that, even when spectators are told the code, their observations can disagree, significantly. IMO, this makes video-corroboration important. .

This is why observers should not be told the code. They are supposed to observe and record: Is the board placed in section A, B, C, D, or other of the table? (Or who is coughing how many times and when?) Other people (with expert bridge knowledge) should record what lead third hand would desire.
A third set of people uses the code to translate the observed behavior (board placement, coughing, whatever) to its alleged bridge meaning (desired opening lead). A fourth set of people compares the bridge expert findings with the translations of the behavior. If they find a high correlation (again, the first correlation was when the code was broken) between behavior at the table and the desired lead then that is very strong evidence.

Rik

[nige1]

Trinidad, on 2015-September-07, 12:53, said:

This is why observers should not be told the code. They are supposed to observe and record: Is the board placed in section A, B, C, D, or other of the table? (Or who is coughing how many times and when?) Other people (with expert bridge knowledge) should record what lead third hand would desire.
A third set of people uses the code to translate the observed behavior (board placement, coughing, whatever) to its alleged bridge meaning (desired opening lead). A fourth set of people compares the bridge expert findings with the translations of the behavior. If they find a high correlation (again, the first correlation was when the code was broken) between behavior at the table and the desired lead then that is very strong evidence.

Agree. Kit Woolsey tried a similar approach, conducting a quiz in several stages on "Doctor" deals. I participated. The exercise was exhausting but fair.

[johnu]

nige1, on 2015-September-07, 11:34, said:

Truscott's account differs from Reese's. Both might well be biased: Reese was the co-accused; Truscott was married to the the American team-member, who originated the accusations. Reese says he based his version on counsel's contemporary notes. Kehela concluded that R-S were innocent.

What is relevant to recent cheating allegations is that, even when spectators are told the code, their observations can disagree, significantly. IMO, this makes video-corroboration important. .

Without taking notes, and sitting in a stationary position in the playing room, you may have trouble seeing how both players hands are holding the cards, and certainly seeing the cards from both hands, especially if there is a relatively early claim where everybody folds up their cards. Since Kehela didn't take notes on the number of fingers seen and then go back and compare with the hand records, his later observations about the percentage of corresponding signals is shaky. Others took notes about the fingers shown, and then compared against the hands records. Who is more reliable? There are some still photos available from that incident that show the strange way R-S were holding the cards, but unfortunately no video. I think back in those days, consumers could only get 8mm cameras that recorded on film which only recorded for a few minutes on a roll, were very expensive, and pretty rare to have. Recording a pretty static bridge tournament wouldn't be on my list of things to film considering the cost of film and processing. These days, people literally film paint drying.

[nige1]

johnu, on 2015-September-07, 14:43, said:

Without taking notes, and sitting in a stationary position in the playing room, you may have trouble seeing how both players hands are holding the cards, and certainly seeing the cards from both hands, especially if there is a relatively early claim where everybody folds up their cards. Since Kehela didn't take notes on the number of fingers seen and then go back and compare with the hand records, his later observations about the percentage of corresponding signals is shaky. Others took notes about the fingers shown, and then compared against the hands records. Who is more reliable? There are some still photos available from that incident that show the strange way R-S were holding the cards, but unfortunately no video. I think back in those days, consumers could only get 8mm cameras that recorded on film which only recorded for a few minutes on a roll, were very expensive, and pretty rare to have. Recording a pretty static bridge tournament wouldn't be on my list of things to film considering the cost of film and processing. These days, people literally film paint drying.

On each deal, Kehela walked round the table, to compare the heart holdings of Reese and Schapiro with the number of fingers shown. A bit awkward, I agree.

In the 50 years that have elapsed since the R-S case, you might expect improvement in the official protocol for investigating cheating allegations.

[PhilKing]

nige1, on 2015-September-07, 15:10, said:

On each deal, Kehela walked round the table, to compare the heart holdings of Reese and Schapiro with the number of fingers shown. A bit awkward, I agree.

In the 50 years that have elapsed since the R-S case, you might expect improvement in the official protocol for investigating cheating allegations.

It's stayed the same. The officials are approximately 0 versus the lot. All cases have been busted by the players or spectators.

[gnasher]

PhilKing, on 2015-September-07, 15:20, said:

It's stayed the same. The officials are approximately 0 versus the lot. All cases have been busted by the players or spectators.

That's not quite true, is it? The ACBL have caught at least two players by videoing them.

[lamford]

gnasher, on 2015-September-08, 01:19, said:

That's not quite true, is it? The ACBL have caught at least two players by videoing them.

Indeed, but they were reactive rather than proactive. And, from what I read, Edddie Wold triggered the investigation. Unless you know of another case.

[MrAce]

JEC made a statement and said ready to vacate the title if ACBL allows him to. Also said the alleged pair will not play in his team unless they are cleared of all charges.

[ahh]

Nigel (nige1)

there is little point using Reese Schapiro to challenge how we investigate cheating . Whatever the evidence and whatever the interpretation of the evidence Reese admitted he cheated . End of . They cheated . In this day and age where honour and integrity have little following we will have to wait a long time before anybody confesses this time round unless it is in their interests to do as part of a plea bargain


Jim Hay