[ldrews]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-24, 15:14, said:

It would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent the Russians messing with your election. The Russians aren't voting, they're influencing legit voters.

Voter ID would disenfranchise a lot of less politically engaged lower socio-economic group people who would never realise they needed to do it, and as those people typically vote Democrat, it's a big Republican idea.

Are you saying that the Russians did not materially affect voting? But like anybody else in the world was just influencing the voting public by publishing stuff?

Now if the stuff being published is factual, then what is the problem?

If the stuff being published is not factual then how do we deter that? In fact, that is a problem for all segments of the political environment. How do we deter non-factual publication that is put forward as factual by the Russians, the Israelis, the Europeans, the Republicans, the Democrats?

Your objection to Voter ID is BS. Valid ID is required to open a bank account, receive Federal benefits, start a business, etc. And if you live in an inner city, you better have ID when you encounter the police. So I would think that the actual number of citizens in the US that do not already have a valid ID is extremely small. And if voting is important to those they will quickly acquire an ID. Do you think people are stupid?

[awm]

Here’s how Russia is alleged to have influenced the 2016 election:

1. Contributing money to the Trump campaign through outside groups (i.e. the NRA). Note that campaign contributions by foreign nationals are illegal.
2. Purchasing targeted “fake news” ads on Facebook to rile up Republicans and depress turnout for likely Democratic voters. Political ads in US election by foreign nationals are also illegal.
3. Hacking into the DNC and Clinton campaign to get information about strategy and providing that information to Republican campaigns, as well as leaking possibly embarrassing information to the press. Again, hacking into people’s computers is illegal. Knowingly taking advantage of illegally obtained information is also illegal, as is accepting a donation of analytic data from a foreign nation.
4. Possibly hacking into state voter registration databases to de-register likely democratic voters. While not directly changing vote totals, this may have contributed to very long wait times to vote in heavily Democratic districts. On the other hand, these wait times could also be a result of “legal” voter suppression by Republican state governments canceling early voting and reducing the number of polling places in these districts.

There is also some fear that Russia will try to hack the voting machines themselves to change vote totals, but no evidence that this was done successfully in 2016 as far as I know.

Which of these tactics would be stopped by voter ids again?

[Winstonm]

A quick survey. Which best describes this post on the all-time BBO list:

Quote

now that Trump is President and enforcing tough sanctions on Russia

A) Most disingenuous
B) Funniest
C) Most assinine
D) Most delusional

[Cyberyeti]

ldrews, on 2018-July-24, 15:51, said:

Your objection to Voter ID is BS. Valid ID is required to open a bank account, receive Federal benefits, start a business, etc. And if you live in an inner city, you better have ID when you encounter the police. So I would think that the actual number of citizens in the US that do not already have a valid ID is extremely small. And if voting is important to those they will quickly acquire an ID. Do you think people are stupid?

I'm in the UK.

There is valid ID which is needed for many things and valid photo ID which not everybody has which is required to vote. I don't drive, if I didn't have a passport as many in the US don't, I would have no valid photo ID of any sort.

[andrei]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-24, 16:07, said:

I'm in the UK.

There is valid ID which is needed for many things and valid photo ID which not everybody has which is required to vote. I don't drive, if I didn't have a passport as many in the US don't, I would have no valid photo ID of any sort.

So to vote in UK one needs a valid photo ID?
No "disenfranchise" issues there?

[ldrews]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-24, 16:07, said:

I'm in the UK.

There is valid ID which is needed for many things and valid photo ID which not everybody has which is required to vote. I don't drive, if I didn't have a passport as many in the US don't, I would have no valid photo ID of any sort.

But you could obtain one if needed, correct?

[ldrews]

Winstonm, on 2018-July-24, 16:02, said:

A quick survey. Which best describes this post on the all-time BBO list:



A) Most disingenuous
B) Funniest
C) Most assinine
D) Most delusional

Is not the statement true? Trump is President, and strong sanctions are being applied to Russia. Please correct me, with some evidence, if I am incorrect.

[ldrews]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-24, 16:07, said:

I'm in the UK.

There is valid ID which is needed for many things and valid photo ID which not everybody has which is required to vote. I don't drive, if I didn't have a passport as many in the US don't, I would have no valid photo ID of any sort.

In the US one normally only needs a birth certificate and with that can usually obtain a valid ID from the Drivers License agencies of the state. Not difficult.

[cherdano]

andrei, on 2018-July-24, 16:23, said:

So to vote in UK one needs a valid photo ID?

No.

Quote

No "disenfranchise" issues there?

No.

Try again.

[johnu]

johnu, on 2018-July-24, 12:27, said:

Another ripped from the headlines story

Without evidence, Dennison claims Russia ‘will be pushing very hard for the Democrats’ in 2018 midterms

Some might find this hard to believe, but it makes perfect sense to me. In other news, Fox has officially joined the Deep State and appointed Bernie Sanders as President and CEO, is replacing lead propagandist Sean Hannity with Keith Olbermann, and will be simulcasting the rest of the MSNBC lineup after firing the rest of their on air so called talent. Finally, Dennison will be taking an extended leave from office to sharpen his golf game so he can challenge Kim Jong-un to a 100 billion dollar winner take all golf match.

I have the greatest respect for you as one of the best posters on this or any forum, but what do you think Dennison and Putin were talking about in Helsinki??? Russia may interfere in some races where the Republicans had overwhelming 50+% wins in previous elections just so Dennison can point to the interference and claim he is not the Russian sock puppet that he is.

[johnu]

ldrews, on 2018-July-24, 16:32, said:

Is not the statement true? Trump is President, and strong sanctions are being applied to Russia. Please correct me, with some evidence, if I am incorrect.

Is not the statement true? Dennison is President, and the US still has some strong environmental laws. Therefore, Dennison is the Environmental President. Please correct me, with some evidence, if I am incorrect.

[ldrews]

johnu, on 2018-July-24, 17:18, said:

Is not the statement true? Dennison is President, and the US still has some strong environmental laws. Therefore, Dennison is the Environmental President. Please correct me, with some evidence, if I am incorrect.

Isn't there a difference? Trump initiated the imposition of at some of those sanctions. Trump has not initiated the imposition of the environmental laws. Therefore one can assign some responsibility of the sanctions to Trump, but none of the environmental laws.

[Chas_P]

johnu, on 2018-July-24, 17:02, said:

what do you think Dennison and Putin were talking about in Helsinki???

Maybe the same things Obama and the Russian ambassador were talking about when Obama assured the Russian President he'd have "more flexibility" on missile defense systems after his next election. Or maybe what Bill Clinton was talking about when he pulled down $500,000 for one speech in Moscow after which the Obama administration with HRC as SOS gave Putin the rights to 20% of our uranium supplies. It's all very puzzling.

[Winstonm]

Winstonm, on 2018-July-24, 16:02, said:

A quick survey. Which best describes this post on the all-time BBO list:



A) Most disingenuous
B) Funniest
C) Most assinine
D) Most delusional

The answer is E) All of the above.

[Winstonm]

Chas_P, on 2018-July-24, 19:09, said:

Maybe the same things Obama and the Russian ambassador were talking about when Obama assured the Russian President he'd have "more flexibility" on missile defense systems after his next election. Or maybe what Bill Clinton was talking about when he pulled down $500,000 for one speech in Moscow after which the Obama administration with HRC as SOS gave Putin the rights to 20% of our uranium supplies. It's all very puzzling.

What puzzles me is how someone who is smart enough to learn the complex game of bridge can be so shortsighted and silly as to believe these nonsensical stories peddled by high-school grad and radio talk show host Sean Hannity and other similar right wing propaganda merchants.

[johnu]

ldrews, on 2018-July-24, 14:19, said:

Perhaps we need to take actions to ensure that no foreign parties are able to mess with our elections. One suggestion would be a national voter ID requirement to ensure that only valid US citizens are able to vote. This would prevent the Russians from materially interfering.

LOL, couldn't you come up with a better strawman argument? You are the only one suggesting that Russians are voting or want to physically vote in our elections. Instead, Russian could hack the counting machines and computers and change thousands or hundreds of thousands of votes. They can delete or modify voter registration records so it is mad chaos in Democrat leaning precincts so it could take hours, half a day or longer waiting in line before people could vote (in potentially very uncomfortable weather). There's a limit to how long people are willing to take to vote, even in the most important elections. Some people have to go to work, get home to take care of other people, just aren't physically capable of camping outside a voting booth for hours.

ldrews, on 2018-July-24, 14:19, said:

As Democrats and the liberal/left have been asserting for some time that Russia was meddling and influencing the 2016 election in favor of Trump, now that Trump is President and enforcing tough sanctions on Russia,

Ohhhh, so it's only the liberal/left that think Dennison is a Russian puppet. As far back as last year, Congress passed a bill that imposed new sanctions and sharply limited the ability of Dennison to lift Russian sanctions. By the way, the bill passed 98-2 in the Senate and 419-3 in the House. In case you weren't sure, this was a veto proof margin. Funny that the Republicans didn't see the need to pass a similar bill when Obama was president.

[Cyberyeti]

andrei, on 2018-July-24, 16:23, said:

So to vote in UK one needs a valid photo ID?
No "disenfranchise" issues there?

No, I meant in the event of voter registration in the US.

In the UK we get sent polling cards (for the specific election) in advance of the poll which allow rapid processing at the polling station although you don't need them, bringing them just makes it faster. Once you've registered once, the registration continues until you change it.

The only photo-ID I could get acceptable to most places it's needed is a passport, and the cost of that would be prohibitive to some people (it's about to go up to £85).

Quote

In the US one normally only needs a birth certificate and with that can usually obtain a valid ID from the Drivers License agencies of the state. Not difficult.

and do you really think that somebody in the US who is living a chaotic life in a trailer park a) has their birth certificate and b) will even think of doing anything before election day

[andrei]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-25, 00:28, said:

In the UK we get sent polling cards (for the specific election) in advance of the poll which allow rapid processing at the polling station although you don't need them, bringing them just makes it faster. Once you've registered once, the registration continues until you change it.

Thank you for clarification.

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-25, 00:28, said:

and do you really think that somebody in the US who is living a chaotic life in a trailer park a) has their birth certificate and b) will even think of doing anything before election day

Why are Democrats so worried about trailer park boys?
Aren't they Republican most trusted voters?

[andrei]

Winstonm, on 2018-July-24, 21:48, said:

What puzzles me is how someone who is smart enough to learn the complex game of bridge can be so shortsighted and silly as to believe these nonsensical stories peddled by high-school grad and radio talk show host Sean Hannity and other similar right wing propaganda merchants.

obama-more-flexibility-russia

[ldrews]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-July-25, 00:28, said:

and do you really think that somebody in the US who is living a chaotic life in a trailer park a) has their birth certificate and b) will even think of doing anything before election day

Do you think such a person is even interested in taking the time to vote?