[Winstonm]

 pilowsky, on 2022-July-03, 00:41, said:

I've been to SD many times.
I'm not surprised he tried to invade it.

And after watching him for 8 years, I am unsurprised he failed.

[Winstonm]

How much longer until this SCOTUS rules criticism of its rulings is not protected free speech.

[kenberg]

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe. Biden speaks of Congress passing laws to protect abortion rights. That would be great, but it sure won't be happening tomorrow and it won't be happening just because Biden says so. Perhaps there will be a strong push from the public for a national legislative solution but it will have to come from the ground up. I very much hope that it does. The pre-Roe poll cited earlier that showed sixty-plus percent of Republicans supporting choice is of interest. At one time, Republicans were conservative, and in part that meant they thought people should be allowed to use their own judgment rather than do whatever the government told them to do. A different era, but maybe there are some who still think that adults, both men and women, should get to make their own choices.

Prediction is really tough on this issue. I can imagine young people, as they become adults and make choices, being willing to live in some states and not in others. Living in one state and then, if in need of an abortion, traveling to another state and then traveling back, is, among many other things, humiliating. And there is the Mann Act to worry about. It has been modified but is still worrisome. It seems to me that the new reality could play a strong role in where people choose to live. Maybe another country, this one seems to have lost its way. Mostly I predict that this will not end well. I'm an 83 year old male and I find the situation abhorrent. A young woman? I can barely imagine what she must be thinking. Nothing good.

[Winstonm]

 kenberg, on 2022-July-03, 08:08, said:

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe. Biden speaks of Congress passing laws to protect abortion rights. That would be great, but it sure won't be happening tomorrow and it won't be happening just because Biden says so. Perhaps there will be a strong push from the public for a national legislative solution but it will have to come from the ground up. I very much hope that it does. The pre-Roe poll cited earlier that showed sixty-plus percent of Republicans supporting choice is of interest. At one time, Republicans were conservative, and in part that meant they thought people should be allowed to use their own judgment rather than do whatever the government told them to do. A different era, but maybe there are some who still think that adults, both men and women, should get to make their own choices.

Prediction is really tough on this issue. I can imagine young people, as they become adults and make choices, being willing to live in some states and not in others. Living in one state and then, if in need of an abortion, traveling to another state and then traveling back, is, among many other things, humiliating. And there is the Mann Act to worry about. It has been modified but is still worrisome. It seems to me that the new reality could play a strong role in where people choose to live. Maybe another country, this one seems to have lost its way. Mostly I predict that this will not end well. I'm an 83 year old male and I find the situation abhorrent. A young woman? I can barely imagine what she must be thinking. Nothing good.

It appears to me as if U.S. politics has splintered into 4 or even more groups: Conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, Radicals. Radical Democrats, and Radical Republicans (Fascists).
Instead of having to form a government as in a parliamentary system, our 2-party system allows a minority to usurp the power without need for compromise. Perhaps this is what Franklin foresaw when he said, "A republic if you can keep it."

Starring America as Blanche Dubois: "Whoever you are-I've always depended upon the kindness of strangers."
How did that work out, Blanche?

[Winstonm]

You gotta love how our ace, crackerjack media news organizations are about to pee themselves because somebody not under oath said Trump didn't lunge. The witness never said he lunged, she said this is what she was told that occurred. No one is refuting that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol to lead the insurrection. I guess that's not newsworthy I'm not sure when I'm gonna mow the yard whenever it gets long enough the end

[Winstonm]

Moore v Harper next year in the SCOTUS could end the United States as a democratic republic. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Unless, of course, you're a fascist.

[pilowsky]

 Winstonm, on 2022-July-03, 21:11, said:

Moore v Harper next year in the SCOTUS could end the United States as a "democratic" republic. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Unless, of course, you're a fascist.

The US is a theocracy. With an unrepresentative swill preventing meaningful reform.

[Winstonm]

 pilowsky, on 2022-July-03, 21:48, said:

The US is a theocracy. With an unrepresentative swill preventing meaningful reform.

Rapidly becoming a theocratic oligarchy,

[pilowsky]

We just had the results of the 2021 census reported - you can download any of it at www.abs.gov.au.
Hours of fun.

Interest in religion in Australia is sinking fast.
I suspect the numbers are over-inflated since many people will 'affiliate' without having any 'bearded-man-in-a-white-robe' type religious belief.

Quote

The 2021 Census has revealed increasing diversity in the religions Australians identified, reflecting continuing changes in our social attitudes and belief systems.

Christianity is the most common religion in Australia, with over 40 per cent (43.9 per cent) identifying as Christian. This has reduced from over 50 per cent (52.1 per cent) in 2016 and from over 60 per cent (61.1 per cent) in 2011. As in earlier Censuses, the largest Christian denominations are Catholic (20.0 per cent of the population) and Anglican (9.8 per cent).

While fewer people are reporting their religion as Christian, more are reporting ‘no religion’. Almost 40 per cent (38.9 per cent) of Australia’s population reported having no religion in the 2021 Census, an increase from 30 per cent (30.1 per cent) in 2016 and 22 per cent (22.3 per cent) in 2011.

Other religions are growing but continue to make up a small proportion of the population. Hinduism has grown by 55.3 per cent to 684,002 people, or 2.7 per cent of the population. Islam has grown to 813,392 people, which is 3.2 per cent of the Australian population.

Dr David Gruen AO, Australian Statistician, said “The religion question holds a special place in the Census – it is one of the few topics that has been in every one of Australia’s 18 Censuses and is the only question that is voluntary.

Despite being voluntary, we saw an increase in the proportion of people answering the question, from 91 per cent in 2016 to 93 per cent in 2021.

[hrothgar]

 kenberg, on 2022-July-03, 08:08, said:

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe.

I regret to say that the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with having 50 votes in the Senate.

The only thing that the Democrats can do is to try and mobilize voters for the fall elections.

If the Dem keep the House and have 52 votes in the Senate then they can pass Federal Laws protecting the right to privacy
If the Dems have 52 votes in the Senate (but lose the House) then they can pack the Supreme Court.

If the Dems have 50 votes in the Senate then we hope that some Supreme Court justices die.

However, there really isn't all that much that can be done here (much as a I wish things were different)

FWIW, I was in favor of packing the Supreme Court a year and a half ago
Biden didn't have the votes (and at the time didn't have the will)

[kenberg]

 hrothgar, on 2022-July-04, 06:31, said:

Quote

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe.

I regret to say that the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with having 50 votes in the Senate.

The only thing that the Democrats can do is to try and mobilize voters for the fall elections.

If the Dem keep the House and have 52 votes in the Senate then they can pass Federal Laws protecting the right to privacy
If the Dems have 52 votes in the Senate (but lose the House) then they can pack the Supreme Court.

If the Dems have 50 votes in the Senate then we hope that some Supreme Court justices die.

However, there really isn't all that much that can be done here (much as a I wish things were different)

FWIW, I was in favor of packing the Supreme Court a year and a half ago
Biden didn't have the votes (and at the time didn't have the will)

So we can hope for a more realistic approach. Yep, we can hope.

[Winstonm]

Two things: first, why do our media people continue to phrase election fraud claims as “without evidence” as the conspiracy-minded will simply hear “hidden evidence”. Framing is critical. Call it what it is: lies, bull, nonsense- but don’t toss around the word evidence.

Second, realize that the Overton Window has been thrown wide open to include the KKK as well as 1939 Berlin.

That window must be either slammed shut and boarded or cemented closed.

[y66]

 Winstonm, on 2022-July-04, 08:03, said:

Two things: first, why do our media people continue to phrase election fraud claims as “without evidence” as the conspiracy-minded will simply hear “hidden evidence”. Framing is critical. Call it what it is: lies, bull, nonsense- but don’t toss around the word evidence.

Second, realize that the Overton Window has been thrown wide open to include the KKK as well as 1939 Berlin.

That window must be either slammed shut and boarded or cemented closed.

The whole window or the newly expanded part? Also, why do you need two ways to metaphorically close a metaphorical window and why do you think [slammed shut and boarded] and [cemented closed] are equivalent?

[Winstonm]

 y66, on 2022-July-04, 12:08, said:

The whole window or the newly expanded part? Also, why do you need two ways to metaphorically close a metaphorical window and why do you think [slammed shut and boarded] and [cemented closed] are equivalent?

Obviously, you have never installed an Overton Window else you would know they do not expand but must be removed and reinstalled if, for example, you desire to look out on the garbage rather than the garden.
Metaphorically the window should do the looking,
“Or” does not suggest equivalence “Ore” does.

[Winstonm]

Concerning another mass murder using a high powered rifle with high capacity magazines: stupidity is not an opinion.

[pilowsky]

 Winstonm, on 2022-July-04, 08:03, said:

Two things: first, why do our media people continue to phrase election fraud claims as "without evidence" as the conspiracy-minded will simply hear "hidden evidence". Framing is critical. Call it what it is: lies, bull, nonsense- but don't toss around the word evidence.

I heard that Irish guy on CNN interview a couple of people at a rally and when he said "But that's just a conspiracy theory" one of them replied (with a completely straight face) "What's wrong with a conspiracy theory?".
You are talking about a population where the majority are happy to waste half a day a week with a bunch of other people chatting about the existence of life after death.
Actual life. After death.
It doesn't matter what words you choose unless they wake up one morning and realise they've been duped you have no chance.

[Winstonm]

 pilowsky, on 2022-July-04, 16:26, said:

I heard that Irish guy on CNN interview a couple of people at a rally and when he said "But that's just a conspiracy theory" one of them replied (with a completely straight face) "What's wrong with a conspiracy theory?".
You are talking about a population where the majority are happy to waste half a day a week with a bunch of other people chatting about the existence of life after death.
Actual life. After death.
It doesn't matter what words you choose unless they wake up one morning and realise they've been duped you have no chance.

All the more reason to frame very carefully. Sure, there are those that cannot be reached, but there are some who will respond to the cognitive dissonance created when confronted continually by truth.

[johnu]

 Winstonm, on 2022-July-04, 16:49, said:

All the more reason to frame very carefully. Sure, there are those that cannot be reached, but there are some who will respond to the cognitive dissonance created when confronted continually by truth.

There are a lot who can't be reached, e.g. flat earthers, anti-evolutionists, January 6 insurrectionists, 2020 election fake fraud Trump stooges, etc. They are all cut from the same cloth.

Take for instance flat earthers. AFAIK, most of them deny the existence of gravity. That's right, they deny that gravity exists because the existence of gravity makes the concept of a flat earth both impossible and (more) ridiculous.

Hundreds of thousands of actual pictures and thousands of hours of video from space showing a spherical earth? Photoshop and computer generated CGI. Actual astronauts talking about their observations? Actors and NASA employees paid to deceive the world to debunk the flat earth reality. International Space Station? Doesn't exist, and photos taken from earth are fake. Astronauts sent into space? Fake, nobody is in those space rockets and the actors who play the astronauts just hang out at a secret luxury resort until it is time for them to "return" to earth. Satellites sent into space to orbit earth and do various missions? Fake, they actually end up crashing into the middle of the ocean while NASA and private companies collect billions for crashing rockets so that the truth about the flat earth can be suppressed.

Why don't the oceans fall off the flat earth? There is a hundreds of feet high wall of ice known as Antarctica circling the flat earth which keeps the water from flowing over the edge. How do flat earthers know that there is an end of the earth in Antarctica? Well, nobody can go there because NASA has an army of soldiers, fighter planes, and warships that prevent anybody from even approaching Antarctica. Why? Because NASA's mission is to prevent the world from knowing the earth is flat. What about the permanent scientific bases in Antarctica, and the cruises that go to Antarctica? Must be fake because nobody is allowed to go there.

Other planets, the moon, stars, galaxies? Projections on a dome that cover the flat earth (apparently like a planetarium, except the size of the flat earth). What is the dome made of? Firmament! What's firmament? The material that makes up the dome around flat earth. What's it made of? It's made of firmament!?! Weren't you paying attention???

The sun? A spotlight 300 miles in diameter, 3000 miles from flat earth projected on the dome. A spotlight??? Right, that's why there is day and night. Night happens when the spotlight isn't pointed at your location on flat earth.

Instead of responding to the truth, flat earthers continually need to invent more conspiracies to show that the truth isn't real.

[pilowsky]

When you say "there are a lot" I think this understates it dramatically.

There is a tendency in even the most rational of us to believe that success is possible in the absence of knowledge or skill.
Everyone that enters a Bridge tournament believes somewhere in a dark recess of their mind that they can win.
This is codified in the American psyche: "you can do anything if you try hard enough".
Well, you can't.

Pew Research writes that

Quote

A slim majority of Americans (56%) say they believe in God "as described in the Bible."

Since when does 56% count as slim?
Particularly when 56% 'say'?
Ask Americans if they think it is possible that ... [insert mad idea here]. The number will be larger.

[Winstonm]

\

 pilowsky, on 2022-July-04, 18:33, said:

When you say "there are a lot" I think this understates it dramatically.

There is a tendency in even the most rational of us to believe that success is possible in the absence of knowledge or skill.
Everyone that enters a Bridge tournament believes somewhere in a dark recess of their mind that they can win.
This is codified in the American psyche: "you can do anything if you try hard enough".
Well, you can't.

Pew Research writes that [/color]

Since when does 56% count as slim?
Particularly when 56% 'say'?
Ask Americans if they think it is possible that ... [insert mad idea here]. The number will be larger.

From the ones I've seen going in and out of WalMart, you would be hard-pressed to find many slim Americans at all.