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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#15501 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 06:38

The very stable genius has given us a Covid-19 equivalency bound to be so famous as to rival Einstein's :

T =
Posted Image



"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#15502 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:22

I get WaPo home delivery. On the front page I saw news about the pandemic, news about the protests, news, if you can call it that, about Trump. I saw nothing about Joe Biden. So I went to the online WaPo and found this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/protests-pose-a-challenge-for-biden-appealing-to-both-older-and-younger-black-voters/2020/05/31/036f4578-a34a-11ea-b473-04905b1af82b_story.html

For example:

Quote


Former vice president Joe Biden views himself as so connected to the African American experience that on a debate stage in Atlanta six months ago, he declared: "I come out of the black community."

But as that city and others burn and demonstrators demand a robust political agenda for communities of color, the 77-year-old presumptive Democratic nominee for president faces a crucial test: Does he have the relationships and the political dexterity to channel their anger, or will he be overtaken by a tsunami of discontent?



Quote



"He has to meet the moment," said Cornell Belcher, who was a pollster for President Barack Obama. "He's completely capable of stepping in that space and delivering a unifying message about bringing America together and talking about the refrain that [Martin Luther] King put out decades ago: that an injustice anywhere to anyone is an injustice to everyone. That's the space that he must occupy."




Quote


So far, Biden has stayed relatively quiet. He gave brief televised remarks supporting protesters Friday and did a rare round of cable news interviews to drive home his point. He issued a statement condemning violence early Sunday morning as images of burning police cars filled TV news. Later, he pulled a prerecorded video from the speaking program for Sunday evening's Maine Democratic Party convention "due to recent events," according to a Biden campaign aide.


So: Biden comes "out of the Black community" and he condemns violence.

And we later in the article see

Quote


Biden also on Sunday made an unannounced visit to protesters in Wilmington, Del., and later posted a photo of an exchange with one person behind yellow police tape. "We are a nation in pain, but we must not allow this pain to destroy us," Biden wrote in a caption.


Yes, he is right about that, we must not allow this pain to destroy us. True enough. I doubt anyone will contest that by saying that we should let pain destroy us.

I have been worried, I am getting more worried.

Quote


"The people are just pissed off in the streets. It's not just a protest, it's rage," said Chaikirah Parker, one of the protest organizers.

"There is a system in place that will have to change from the top going down. [Biden] has to show that he has the courage to make a change all the way through."



If Biden decides to say something other than that we cannot let pain destroy us there will surely be people who disagree with what he says, very possibly I will disagree with what he says. This gas to be accepted. Right now he is letting events and other people define him.




Ken
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#15503 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:37

You know, Ken, Joe Biden does not have the bully pulpit. How much Biden can say at this point has a lot to do with how much time he is allocated by media.

The two issues now to me are: 1) who and how many will be able to vote in November, and 2) what are Barr and Trump trying to do to undermine those votes or even results of the election?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#15504 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:53

I rolled my eyes when I read that Biden quote yesterday.

Here's the simple message I would have liked to hear instead:

Quote

George Floyd died on the ground, his hands cuffed behind his back, and a sworn officer’s knee on his neck. We have all seen the video of him saying “I can’t breathe” and pleading for them to stop, as his life left his body.

The individuals responsible for George Floyd’s death must be held accountable, and we must all condemn the deaths and murders that have - for generations - stolen the lives of parents, brothers, children, and loved ones, but that’s not enough. As a nation, we must directly confront the bias, hate, and structures that lay the foundation of disparity in our communities, our schools, and our healthcare and justice systems.

George Floyd cannot simply be one more name in a cycle of violence that takes the lives of our fellow Americans and weakens us as a nation and a people. -- Abigail Spanberger, (D-Va)

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#15505 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:57

Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg said:

In an episode of the original Star Trek series, called “The Ultimate Computer,” a rival captain calls James T. Kirk “Captain Dunsel” after a fancy new computer takes control of the Enterprise, making Kirk superfluous; Spock explains that “dunsel” was cadet slang for “a part which serves no useful purpose.”

This was Donald Trump’s President Dunsel weekend. Not, as in the original, because he had been replaced; Trump simply seems to have given up on the job. He’s had no policy on the pandemic for about a month now. He basically has no policy on recovering from the economic calamity. And he has no policy to deal with the police violence, demonstrations and the rest of the upheaval that has gripped the nation for the past week.

As Philip Rucker put it in the Washington Post:

Never in the 1,227 days of Trump’s presidency has the nation seemed to cry out for leadership as it did Sunday, yet Trump made no attempt to provide it.

That was by design. Trump and some of his advisers calculated that he should not speak to the nation because he had nothing to say, according to a senior administration official. He had no tangible policy or action to announce, nor did he feel an urgent motivation to try to bring people together. So he stayed silent.

He did have his Twitter account, of course, and he made a few comments to reporters over the weekend. But that was far from policy. At one point, Trump echoed civil-rights era reactionaries by threatening “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” only to back down when Republicans urged him to. That is, even when all Trump has is words, he’s easily rolled by his own allies. (They’re not willing to remove him from office, partly because they know how easy he is to defeat any time they want to.) By Sunday, he had moved to one of his favorite devices, the fictional tough stand. This one was a tweet about designating “ANTIFA” a terrorist organization, something the president very likely doesn’t have the power to do. It joins other fictional tough stands such as his threat to shut down Twitter or to order state governments to exempt churches from distancing rules. It’s all phony, bluster instead of policy.

Trump’s weekend kicked off with what he called a press conference on Friday, although he didn’t actually take any questions. Instead, having decided that former Vice President Joe Biden’s alleged weakness on China would be a good campaign theme, Trump decided to get tough with China. But not really: He announced (again) a withdrawal from the World Health Organization, which (see links below) many consider a reward, not a punishment. And the rest of what he announced was equally underwhelming — even assuming he actually follows through on it.

The Washington Post has a terrific report about how Trump spent the month of May, which includes more of what he wasted his time doing. Perhaps the most depressing bit is that Trump and some of his staff seem to think that the big problem is that he can’t do his rallies during the pandemic, as if all he needs is more campaigning. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that he has any responsibility for attempting to unite or lead the nation, or that there might actually be an electoral payoff for doing so.

President Dunsel, indeed.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#15506 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:58

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-June-01, 08:37, said:

You know, Ken, Joe Biden does not have the bully pulpit. How much Biden can say at this point has a lot to do with how much time he is allocated by media.

The two issues now to me are: 1) who and how many will be able to vote in November, and 2) what are Barr and Trump trying to do to undermine those votes or even results of the election?


Surely Biden could do better at defining himself. But he has to say something. Saying that we should not let pain destroy us is not the way to go about it. Can you imagine the headline: Biden states unequivocally that we should not let pain destroy us.
Yes, he lacks the easy access to media coverage that a president has, but he could do better and needs to do better. I have said it before but I will say it again. On Wednesday November 4th I really don't want to be complaining about how unfair it is that Biden lost, I want to be celebrating that Biden won. But he has to show up. I could hope someone is telling him this but really my hope is that he does not need someone to tell him this.
Ken
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#15507 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:59

https://www.cnn.com/...trnd/index.html




Quote

As Americans' rage over racial injustice boils over into a sixth day of protests, Monday also marks the 99th anniversary of one of the worst acts of racial violence the country has ever seen.

This year's anniversary of the 1921 Tulsa race massacre comes amid nationwide demonstrations sparked by the death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old unarmed black man who died last week at the hands of a white police officer in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#15508 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 09:05

There is nothing that Joe Biden could do that would get him on the WaPo front page at the moment. (Except doing something scandalous.) What statement would be newsworthy enough while the country is, literally, burning?
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#15509 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 09:45

View Postcherdano, on 2020-June-01, 09:05, said:

There is nothing that Joe Biden could do that would get him on the WaPo front page at the moment. (Except doing something scandalous.) What statement would be newsworthy enough while the country is, literally, burning?


That's easy. He could say what he thinks.

I'll give you a sample by saying what I think. Probably not the same as what Joe Biden thinks, but who knows.

A: We start with: The first person responsible for a person's actions is the person himself/herself.
B: That obviously applies to a person who is pushing his knee down on someone's neck. It is not possible, simply not possible, to not understand the consequences of doing so. There were (at least) three other cops to help with controlling a belligerent arrestee, a handcuffed arrestee, and the knee was on the neck for 8+ minutes. Sure, with luck he night have survived but that' hardly the point. The responsibility for the death clearly is the cop's responsibility.
C: This responsibility also applies to anyone who lights a fire. Skip the stuff about false equivalence. Nobody is claiming that lighting a fire is equivalent to choking someone to death. The claim is that if a person lights something on fire, that person is responsible for the consequences of that act.
D: There is no possibility, none at all, that authorities will allow arson to continue. Exactly how the arson will come to an end is uncertain. It needs to come to an end and it is certain that it will come to an end.

I do not expect Biden to say what I have just said, If he did I believe it would get media coverage. Biden can, and should, say what Biden believes. I hope for some substance. I do not require that I agree with what he says, that's not needed. I agree with his statement that we should not let pain destroy us. Who doesn't agree? I hope he has some thoughts that go beyond that. I, and many, would like to hear those thoughts.
Ken
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#15510 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 10:18

Ken, I am sure you have search to find out what Biden actually said about the protests? If so, you would have found e.g. https://twitter.com/...515917917302789 . Obviously, this is a matter of opinion, but in my one it's infinitely better than what you proposed him to say. Yet it didn't get him on the WaPo front page.

Biden can say what he thinks. But that gets him into your living room only in your imagination. The media don't work the way you think they work.
If you want to hear what Biden says, bookmark https://twitter.com/JoeBiden or https://joebiden.com/ .
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#15511 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 10:55

IMO the Biden strategy of keeping a low profile probably works out well for the Democrats. There is no point interfering while the great leader is busy imploding into an orange ball of dust.
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#15512 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 11:55

View Postcherdano, on 2020-June-01, 10:18, said:

Ken, I am sure you have search to find out what Biden actually said about the protests? If so, you would have found e.g. https://twitter.com/...515917917302789 . Obviously, this is a matter of opinion, but in my one it's infinitely better than what you proposed him to say. Yet it didn't get him on the WaPo front page.

Biden can say what he thinks. But that gets him into your living room only in your imagination. The media don't work the way you think they work.
If you want to hear what Biden says, bookmark https://twitter.com/JoeBiden or https://joebiden.com/ .


I had not seen that video in full although I had looked some to see what Biden had to say. I had found something from, I think, the DNC that promised a statement but when I went back it seemed to have disappeared. I had read some of the statements that he made in the video, I read them in WaPO, and I think the parts I saw quoted pretty much captured the content of the video. Biden is opposed to racism, opposed to choking people, opposed to bad cops. He is sympathetic to the family. I agree with all that but it does not surprise me that it did not make the front page. It was a well delivered speech.

It's clear that I am in a minority, maybe a minority of one or maybe two, with my thinking. For really quite a long while, I have thought Biden has been ducking and weaving and this view continues.

Let me try to explain my concerns this way.
I believe I was either the first or among the first to say that Elizabeth Warrens duck and weave, when she was asked if her health plan would result in increased taxes on the middle class, was going to hurt her. Some said no, she would clarify and all would be well. It was the beginning of the end for her. Most people are not financial experts, just as most people do not spend a lot of time thinking about the police. But I think most people can spot ducking and weaving. It's part of life. A parent asks a teenager where he was. he says he was out. Well, it's true. He was out.

If a person is only saying things that just about everyone agrees with such as that racial problems in America go back to the founding of the nation, then that person isn't saying much.

I think he has to do more. I can't prove it. I would like him to say something that someone somewhere would actually disagree with, other than that Trump is horrible. That is of course true, but it is hardly news.
Ken
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#15513 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 12:35

View Postshyams, on 2020-May-30, 02:16, said:


Also good was one that was linked from there:

Good Cop, Bad Cop Both Racist
It's 16 years old, but just as relevant.

#15514 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 13:03

Upon reflection, I thought of something Biden could say that I believe would have been very well received:

The country only has one president at a time and right now I am not that president. I will not be saying what the person who now is president should be doing in this time of crisis. However. This struggle, this too often deadly struggle, between police officers and the African-American community needs to be addressed. As president, I give you my sacred word that this problem will be addressed, fairly, creatively and energetically. Police officers have a dangerous job to do, they need to be trained thoroughly and they need to respect the community that they serve. African-Americans, and all Americans, need to benefit from the security of a well trained police force rather than fear the police force. This issue must be addressed and as president I will address it. What happened should not have happened, it should not have happened before. We must keep it from happening again.
Ken
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#15515 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 13:13

View Postkenberg, on 2020-June-01, 13:03, said:

Upon reflection, I thought of something Biden could say that I believe would have been very well received:

The country only has one president at a time and right now I am not that president. I will not be saying what the person who now is president should be doing in this time of crisis. However. This struggle, this too often deadly struggle, between police officers and the African-American community needs to be addressed. As president, I give you my sacred word that this problem will be addressed, fairly, creatively and energetically. Police officers have a dangerous job to do, they need to be trained thoroughly and they need to respect the community that they serve. African-Americans, and all Americans, need to benefit from the security of a well trained police force rather than fear the police force. This issue must be addressed and as president I will address it. What happened should not have happened, it should not have happened before. We must keep it from happening again.


I certainly understand your concern and I agree that a more forceful statement would help. At the same time, I am aware that Joe Biden is not yet even the official Democratic nominee - he's just another Joe. I wonder what would happen if Joe Biden asked the primary television networks for 5 minutes of free time to make such a statement?

Any bets he would get nada?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#15516 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 13:26

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-June-01, 13:13, said:

I certainly understand your concern and I agree that a more forceful statement would help. At the same time, I am aware that Joe Biden is not yet even the official Democratic nominee - he's just another Joe. I wonder what would happen if Joe Biden asked the primary television networks for 5 minutes of free time to make such a statement?

Any bets he would get nada?

He's the presumptive nominee, and if there weren't so much else going on I think the news media would consider the general election to be in full force.

Would they give him free airtime even if he were the official nominee? I'm not so sure.

#15517 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 13:31

Yahoo:

Quote

The survey, conducted on May 29 and 30, found that 52 percent of Americans answered yes when asked whether they "think that President Trump is a racist." Only 37 percent said no. Just 33 percent said the president should continue "posting messages on Twitter." Fifty-four percent said no to the question.


If Joe Biden does not thoroughly trounce Donald Trump in November, then Ken and I are not living in the country we think.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#15518 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 14:09

View Postkenberg, on 2020-June-01, 11:55, said:

Let me try to explain my concerns this way.
I believe I was either the first or among the first to say that Elizabeth Warrens duck and weave, when she was asked if her health plan would result in increased taxes on the middle class, was going to hurt her. Some said no, she would clarify and all would be well. It was the beginning of the end for her.


I have to say, I remember this a bit differently than you do. My recollection was that for a long time Elizabeth Warren wasn't giving any details of her health plan and how she would pay for it. The media made a big deal out of this and kept trying to trick her into committing to middle class tax hikes, but most voters didn't actually care. It was only when Warren caved and released a detailed plan that her campaign crashed and burned.

The lesson I'd draw from this is therefore also the opposite of what you seem to have concluded. When things are going well for you, you're leading in the polls, and your opponents are making themselves look like fools... don't screw it up. Don't change anything, do what you've been doing, and don't fall for the media trying to manufacture a story (or a scandal) to make it a dogfight.

Biden's doing just fine as far as I'm concerned. He wasn't my first choice nominee, but all he has to do is remain "generic democrat" and he wins.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#15519 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 15:51

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-June-01, 13:13, said:

I certainly understand your concern and I agree that a more forceful statement would help. At the same time, I am aware that Joe Biden is not yet even the official Democratic nominee - he's just another Joe. I wonder what would happen if Joe Biden asked the primary television networks for 5 minutes of free time to make such a statement?

Any bets he would get nada?


I am fighting a losing battle but consider:


On PBS they were showing something of Biden. It was blah. The article I posted was from WaPo. It had comments from aides who spoke anonymously.

The excuses just don't fly. If the presumptive D nominee says something of substance, he will get air time.

This is Biden making a choice, it is not some cabal keeping him from speaking. It just isn't. More from the WaPo article.

Quote


So far, Biden has stayed relatively quiet. He gave brief televised remarks supporting protesters Friday and did a rare round of cable news interviews to drive home his point. He issued a statement condemning violence early Sunday morning as images of burning police cars filled TV news. Later, he pulled a prerecorded video from the speaking program for Sunday evening's Maine Democratic Party convention "due to recent events," according to a Biden campaign aide.



Quote


He is planning to speak more about race in coming days, according to a person familiar with the campaign's plans who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk about discussions underway.

Ken
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#15520 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 16:23

View Postkenberg, on 2020-June-01, 15:51, said:

I am fighting a losing battle but consider:]


Ken, have you actually paid any attention to what Biden has been up to these past few days?

He has out in public, meeting with American citizens who are protesting
https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large

He has been hosting discussions with civic and community leaders

Tonight he is running a round table discussions with mayors across the US

All this while Trump is hiding away in a White Bunker, masturbating over the thought of deploying the US military against civilians

This is another one of these cases where the real issue is that Kenberg lives in a bubble and complains when he isn't spoon fed precisely the information that he want to hear
Alderaan delenda est
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