[Fluffy]

oh you want artificial?

1♣-1♥ (precison// spades 8+)
1♠-2♥ (relay// minimum, either majors or balanced)
2♠-3♦ (relay// 5-5)
3♠-3NT (keycard in hearts// 1 keycard)
6♥-pass

[Cthulhu D]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-10, 05:39, said:

oh you want artificial?

1♣-1♥ (precison// spades 8+)
1♠-2♥ (relay// minimum, either majors or balanced)
2♠-3♦ (relay// 5-5)
3♠-3NT (keycard in hearts// 1 keycard)
6♥-pass

Is 6H even that good? I can see the lines to 12 tricks, but you seem in danger of a bad break or even a trump lead.

[steve2005]

This hand is incredibly easy hand to get to 4♥, the trick is avoiding 6♥ but having a singleton ♠ should slow N down.

More interesting if playing a system which can show a strong 4441.

[kenrexford]

steve2005, on 2014-October-10, 09:16, said:

This hand is incredibly easy hand to get to 4♥, the trick is avoiding 6♥ but having a singleton ♠ should slow N down.

More interesting if playing a system which can show a strong 4441.

2♣ (three-suited, 10-17)
2♦ (tell me more)
2NT (15-17)
3♣ (tell me more)
3♥ (stiff spade)

That's a decent start.

A 2♣ opening as a 4-4-4-1 hand is much easier to handle than Mini-Roman, because of the cheaper 2♦ asking bid. My usual range when using this is about 10-15. However, an expanded 10-17 is easy and a good idea. In fact, I have gone 10+ before. But, expanding to just one additional range is really easy.

The normal 10-15 will have 2♥ (has hearts; 3♦ re-ask) or 2♠ (4144/4045/4054) as minimums, with 2NT/3♣/3♦/3♥ as one-under maximums.

The expanded range adds in 2NT as a maximum (3♣ re-ask), same minimum handling, with 3-bods as one-under middlish hands. The ranges are roughly 10-13, 13-15, 15-17. Overlap (and the max/min extreme) is determined by shape (void or no void). Thus, 10 with a void is enough; 17 with a void is too much.

With the expanded range, after a bust response (e.g., 2♥), +1 is "guess again," +2 guess again with maximum, and +3 support shortness. In the 2♥ example, 2♠ is guess again, 2NT guess again maximum, 3minor maximum support short here, and 3♥ max support short spade. If 2♠ was the bust call, 2NT guess again, 3♣ guess again maximum, 3red max support short here, and 3♠ max support short clubs.

[Fluffy]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-October-10, 07:05, said:

Is 6H even that good? I can see the lines to 12 tricks, but you seem in danger of a bad break or even a trump lead.

One of the strengths of relay systems is that even when thye know one shape, thye have zero info towards the other and leads are difficult.

[Kungsgeten]

Our Swedish Club system:

1♣ (11-13 bal or most 17+) -- 1♠ (8+, 4+ spades);
2NT (nat, < 3 spades) -- 3♥;
4♥.

Opener may bid 4♣ as a cue instead of 4♥, but to me that should show a stronger hand (2NT is usually 17-19 or 22+).

[steve2005]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-10, 05:39, said:

oh you want artificial?

1♣-1♥ (precison// spades 8+)
1♠-2♥ (relay// minimum, either majors or balanced)
2♠-3♦ (relay// 5-5)
3♠-3NT (keycard in hearts// 1 keycard)
6♥-pass

Does 6♥ have much hope on a trump lead?

[steve2005]

Wackojack, on 2014-September-07, 02:43, said:

how the bidding would go:

---

Revision (a form of Precision)

1♣ 16+ unbalanced 21+ balanced - 1♦ waiting
2♦ 4441 16-24 hcp - 2N GF relay asks for singleton
3♥ (1♠) - 3♠ sets ♥ as trump (though 4♥ may be best bid here)
4♣ min 16-18 hcp but no wasted ♠ honor - 4♥ to play

[jallerton]

Wackojack, on 2014-September-07, 02:43, said:

I am interested in how the bidding would go playing:

1. Acol 12-14 no trump with and without Crowhust
2. SA 15-17 5542 or 5533 with:
simple 2♣ check back;
new minor forcing;
2-way check back;
transfer Walsh.

---

It is MP pairs btw if that influences your decision.

If South opens 1♣ there may or may not be an overcall of 1♦by East. I am particularly interested in how Acol players would bid this.

Thank you in advance

1. Depends on the version of Acol you are playing. Some agree to open 1♥ on this shape, some open 1♦ and a smaller minority 1♣.

(a) 1♥-4♥ or Responder might start with a splinter if this is in range.
(b) 1m-1♠-1NT-2♣-2♥-4♥. If a 1NT opening is 12-14, a 1NT rebid should show 15-17. This is not a perfect description of the hand, but it keeps all strains in the game and less can go wrong compared with reversing into hearts (yuk) or 1♦-1♠-2♣.

2. Assuming weak jump shifts not in use, 1♦-1♠-2♣-2♠-2NT-3♥-4♥. I reject a 15-17 1NT opening bid which has more flaws that a 15-17 1NT rebid. 1m-1♠-2NT-look for heart fit-.....4♥ (Depending on agreements) is not unreasonable.

3. 1♣-1♥(Spades)-1NT-2♦-2♥....4♥ (depending on agreements). Rebidding NT at the 1-level to show (17)18-19 is more attractive than rebidding at the 2-level.

[0 luca]

Fantunes system bids like this:
1 ♣
1 ♦
1 ♥
2 ♦
2 ♠
4 ♦
5♣
...

[0 luca]

I missed . Theyopen 1 ♦
1 ♦
1 ♥
2 ♣
2 ♦
3 ♥
...

[kugw]

Wackojack, on 2014-September-07, 02:43, said:

I am interested in how the bidding would go playing:

1. Acol 12-14 no trump with and without Crowhust
2. SA 15-17 5542 or 5533 with:
simple 2♣ check back;
new minor forcing;
2-way check back;
transfer Walsh.

---

It is MP pairs btw if that influences your decision.

If South opens 1♣ there may or may not be an overcall of 1♦by East. I am particularly interested in how Acol players would bid this.

Thank you in advance

When I was learning bridge you opened the suit below the shortage and proceeded from there. hence 1H. And with the South hand it is a 4H response <10 hcp and 5+ hearts and some shortage. If you judge the hand good enough to splinter then by all means do so as this option will lead to 6H being the final contract.

[mgoetze]

kugw, on 2016-January-07, 18:32, said:

When I was learning bridge

Was that before or after this thread was started?

[nige1]

Wackojack, on 2014-September-07, 02:43, said:

I am interested in how the bidding would go playing:
1. Acol 12-14 no trump with and without Crowhust
2. SA 15-17 5542 or 5533 with:
simple 2♣ check back;
new minor forcing;
2-way check back;
transfer Walsh.
It is MP pairs btw if that influences your decision.
If South opens 1♣ there may or may not be an overcall of 1♦by East. I am particularly interested in how Acol players would bid this.

---

Still learning but, IMO, 4♥ seems best. 2♣ less good -- but might score better than 6♥ Assuming that North deals:

• Normal Acol 1♦ - 1♠; 1N - 2♥; 4♥ AP.
• Crowhust Acol 1♦ - 1♠; 1N - 3♥; - 4♥ AP. (3♥ = 5+5+ invitational).
• Majors first Acol 1♥ - 4♥ AP.
• On a bad day, Acol and SA: 1♦ - 1♠ -; 2♣ AP.
• On a good day, Acol and SA: 1♦ - 1♠ -; 2♣ - 2♠; 2N - 3♥ -; 4♥ AP.
• Jasmine 1♣ (1♦) 1N -; 2♥ - 2N -; 3♥ - 4♦ -; 4♥ AP. (1♣ = Strong. 1N = +ve both Ms. 2N = 1 keycard. 3♥ = Mild slam interest).

[kugw]

Why complicate something that is quite simple.

Playing standard Acol the bidding would simply go:

Opener........Responder
..1H...............4H shortage, 5+ hearts and 10-15 playing points

and that is most likely where the auction would end.



Playing 4 card Acol with splinters the auction is simple.

Opener.......Responder
..1H............4D shortage diamonds, 5+ hearts and 10-15 playing points

and now opener decides to continue on or bid 4H, that is the only problem with this hand.

Opener has to decide how good his hand is opposite known support and a good shortage.

[Dinarius]

steve2005, on 2014-October-11, 10:54, said:

Does 6♥ have much hope on a trump lead?

Don't think so.

I play 5 card majors, strong 15-17 NT and prepared♣

So, I bid....

1♣:1♠
2NT :3♥
4♥

2NT is a white lie and an upgrade but, given the spade bid, and the quality of my pips, I'm happy to stand over it.


D

[Zelandakh]

Dinarius, on 2016-January-12, 08:48, said:

2NT is a white lie and an upgrade but, given the spade bid, and the quality of my pips, I'm happy to stand over it.

What would your rebid be if you change the ♦J to the nine?

[vmsmith]

Getting there is easy making it requires that they do not lead trump.
1D - 1S
2H - 4H
5C - 5H
6H
The 2H reverse shows a strong hand.
4H shows length and strength.
This means 5-5 thus only 3 cards in the minors.
5C shows first round control. Now make it.

[kugw]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-07, 19:15, said:

Was that before or after this thread was started?

After this thread started.

[Zelandakh]

kugw, on 2016-January-18, 19:32, said:

After this thread started.

Then someone taught you an extremely old-fashioned version of Acol! I do not think I have seen this method suggested in any books written this side of 1970.