[Liversidge]

We play weak NT, Stayman and transfers.
I had this hand last week, and partner opened 1NT. What should I have responded? I bid 2 Clubs and partner replied 2 Diamonds. We bid and made 5 diamonds.

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But what if partner had replied 2 hearts? Doesn't 2NT show 4 spades invitational?

[manudude03]

It's important to have some agreement on how to handle GF(game-forcing) hands. Popular bids for this are 3D as GF both minors or 3S as a splinter (usually 13(45) but some play it can be 0355).

[Zelandakh]

It is perhaps not as helpful as you would like but the answer is it depends on system. A popular method is for hands with both minors to start with 2♠. There are various methods for this - 2♠ might be Minor Suit Stayman; weak with one minor or strong with both minors; a transfer to clubs showing a second suit on the next round; or various other possibilities, most of which would be too complicated for this forum.

Some others use 3♣ and 3♦ responses to show minor 2-suiters.

Without any system agreed for this hand type you are pretty much down to bidding Stayman followed by 3♦ and 4♣. Not ideal since 3NT might still be the best spot. Of course you might decide to follow this course only over a 2♦ or 2♥ response to Stayman and stop off in 3NT over 2♠ hoping that partner's spade suit holds a few honours. We'd feel a little sily opposite ♠xxxx ♥Kx ♦AQ ♣Axxxx though!

[helene_t]

Without any system (but assuming that a direct 3♦ is forcing) I think it's reasonable to bid 3♦ followed by 4♣ or 5♣. 3NT could be the right spot but there is no way to find out.

[Liversidge]

helene_t, on 2014-August-03, 04:43, said:

Without any system (but assuming that a direct 3♦ is forcing) I think it's reasonable to bid 3♦ followed by 4♣ or 5♣. 3NT could be the right spot but there is no way to find out.

Could you clarify whether you are suggesting 1NT 3D 3* 4C as forcing, or are you saying the same as Zelandakh , i.e. 1NT - 2C - 2* - 3D - 3* - 4C . I take it that you are inviting partner to choose a minor?

[wank]

Liversidge, on 2014-August-03, 05:49, said:

Could you clarify whether you are suggesting 1NT 3D 3* 4C as forcing, or are you saying the same as Zelandakh , i.e. 1NT - 2C - 2* - 3D - 3* - 4C . I take it that you are inviting partner to choose a minor?

traditionally, 1NT - 3any was natural and game forcing. the suggestion is you could start with the diamonds and then introduce the clubs. of course if you have one of the more modern alternate meanings for a 3D response, you obviously can't do that.

[Liversidge]

wank, on 2014-August-03, 06:10, said:

traditionally, 1NT - 3any was natural and game forcing. the suggestion is you could start with the diamonds and then introduce the clubs. of course if you have one of the more modern alternate meanings for a 3D response, you obviously can't do that.

Thanks. That fits with what I have just read in the EBU Modern Acol system file, which says that 1NT - 3 of anything is game forcing with possible slam potential.

[Zelandakh]

You also have to be careful because some promise a 6 card suit for 1NT - 3m even when it is natural and GF.

[helene_t]

Liversidge, on 2014-August-03, 05:49, said:

Could you clarify whether you are suggesting 1NT 3D 3* 4C as forcing, or are you saying the same as Zelandakh , i.e. 1NT - 2C - 2* - 3D - 3* - 4C . I take it that you are inviting partner to choose a minor?

If 3♦ is forcing then 4♣ must be forcing as well. As a general (universal?) rule, a bid at the 3-level cannot be forcing for one round only. It is either nonforcing, or forcing to game.

[Zelandakh]

Change that to "a natural bid" helene and I am right there with you. 3 level transfers can easily be forcing for only one round and there are a few other examples of this too amongst artificial bids.

[gwnn]

Didn't that go without saying Zel...?

[ArtK78]

Liversidge, on 2014-August-03, 04:17, said:

But what if partner had replied 2 hearts? Doesn't 2NT show 4 spades invitational?

I did not see anyone respond to this comment.

What does your 2♠ bid show over 2♥?

Many (most?) players now play that if you have 4 spades and an invitational hand you bid 2♠ over 2♥, so that the 2NT bid denies 4 spades. Usually this is done because the 2NT response to 1NT is artificial, but if you don't have any special meaning for 2♠ in this auction you can adopt this treatment.

[Zelandakh]

gwnn, on 2014-August-04, 05:01, said:

Didn't that go without saying Zel...?

Probably...but would hate for someone to get this wrong at a bad moment just because they did not think of the possible exceptions.

[gwnn]

I would also hate for people to answer my completely sensible post with a nit pick.

[Zelandakh]

I hope helene did not take it that way. She gave it an upvote so I am working under the assumption she took it positively, as intended.