[bluecalm]

Do you play it as transfer to 1N or showing diamonds ? (or maybe something else).
For people playing transfers even without dbl: do you play this sequence the same as after dbl ? Which way ?

[paulg]

As always it depends what else you do, but our approach without competition is that 1♠ shows 5-11 HCP without a four-card major. This is in the context where we use 1NT as a game-forcing relay (may be a club force) and 2♣ as game-forcing with diamonds. We used to play that 1♠ just showed diamonds, but a big benefit of this new approach is that opener can rebid 2♦ to show 18-19 balanced and we have better definition over a 1NT rebid too. Occasionally we'll lose a diamond fit, normally when the opponents have the balance of points and the majors ... which is when you'd normally be out-gunned anyhow.

In competition 1♠ is just a noise, showing values without a more descriptive call available. It may be a hand that most would bid 1NT on but does deny 5-9 points with at least 4-4 in the minors.

[helene_t]

what about transfers starting with rdbl->diamonds

Then 1♠ is available for showing both minors.

Alternatively, use rdbl to show both majors, and play system on otherwise (assuming you system doesn't have another bid that shows both majors).

[PhilKing]

I like redouble as any 8+ with no clear bid (forcing to 1NT, next double is for take-out). This helps give greater definition to other bids:

1♦ = 5+♥
1♥ = 5+♠
1♠ = 4+ clubs
1NT = 4+♦ NF
2♣ = 5+♦F1
2♦♥♠ = fit jumps, NF

With 5-7 points and no decent suit, I think it is best to just pass over the double.

[gnasher]

I like redouble as diamonds, 1♠ as notrumps, 1NT as clubs.

[paulg]

I should have added that we do use redouble as diamonds and 1NT as clubs, so 1♠ does tend to be no-trumps.

[FrancesHinden]

After the double, we play redouble as diamonds, 1NT as NT and 1♠ as a good club raise (2C weak with 5+ clubs)
Without the double we play 1S as diamonds and 1NT as NT.

[fromageGB]

Essentially system on after interference, with the added benefit here of a redouble as a transfer to diamonds. So 1♠ is a relay that denies a 4 card major. Opener bids 1NT with the 12-14, 2♣ with 6 card, or otherwise whatever other descriptive bid he would make.

With or without the X our 1♠ could be the start of showing a minor orientated hand, but the X removes the diamond holdings.

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on 2014-April-03, 14:46, said:

1NT as NT and 1♠ as a good club raise

To me that seems obviously worse than 1♠ as NT and 1NT as a good club raise, because you'll wrongside notrumps far more often than I will.

[gszes]

Completely unasked for opinion since I do not care for the transfers:

xx normal penalty seeking or better and most invitational club support hands
pass does not say much but at least you can stand clubs.
1d denies a 5 card suit (unless it is diamonds) and hates
clubs less than xx
1h denies 5s (see 2d) less than xx has at least 5 hearts
1s has at least 5 spades may have 4 hearts or diamonds less than xx
1n 4+ clubs 4 hearts less than xx
2c 4+ clubs 4 spades less than xx
2d both majors 55 or better (unlimited)
2h preemptive
2s preemptive
2n minors less than xx
3c preemptive
3 d/h/s at least 6 invitational

I will bid with less than "six" if I really really hate clubs so
my p should not be shocked to see me bidding 1d with Kxxx xxxx xxxx x.

[jallerton]

gnasher, on 2014-April-03, 05:36, said:

I like redouble as diamonds, 1♠ as notrumps, 1NT as clubs.

FrancesHinden, on 2014-April-03, 14:46, said:

After the double, we play redouble as diamonds, 1NT as NT and 1♠ as a good club raise (2C weak with 5+ clubs)
Without the double we play 1S as diamonds and 1NT as NT.

gnasher, on 2014-April-03, 16:55, said:

To me that seems obviously worse than 1♠ as NT and 1NT as a good club raise, because you'll wrongside notrumps far more often than I will.

In your system, you either have to play 1NT as limited, in which case you have to find another way of bidding good hands with clubs, or you have to play 1NT as forcing, in which case you can't bid 1NT on 6-10HCP hands with 4 clubs.

Playing Frances's suggestion, wrongsiding NT is not too much of a concern as Responder always has the option of showing his suit if he doesn't fancy declaring NT.

[gnasher]

jallerton, on 2014-April-04, 11:32, said:

In your system, you either have to play 1NT as limited, in which case you have to find another way of bidding good hands with clubs, or you have to play 1NT as forcing, in which case you can't bid 1NT on 6-10HCP hands with 4 clubs.

Playing Frances's suggestion, wrongsiding NT is not too much of a concern as Responder always has the option of showing his suit if he doesn't fancy declaring NT.

In Frances's system 1NT is limited too, so she has to find another way of bidding good hands with notrumps.

In Frances's system, how does responder bid a 3334 6-count?

[bluecalm]

Quote

In Frances's system, how does responder bid a 3334 6-count?

Maybe a pass ?

[PhilKing]

gnasher, on 2014-April-04, 12:03, said:

In Frances's system, how does responder bid a 3334 6-count?

I would strongly suggest passing. Within a strong no trump context bidding is pretty crazy imo.

[PhilKing]

Since when did diamonds become so important after 1♣-x? Just because Bocchi plays redouble as diamonds does not make it right. If you don't like 5-card major transfers, try this:

xx = hearts
1♦ = spades
1♥ = clubs
1♠ = diamonds

That way, you get to show all suits in a timely manner, and give due weight to the majors.

[fromageGB]

PhilKing, on 2014-April-04, 14:22, said:

Since when did diamonds become so important after 1♣-x? Just because Bocchi plays redouble as diamonds does not make it right. If you don't like 5-card major transfers, try this:

On the other hand, why confuse yourself with something that is completely different to what you would do without the X ?

I don't see how this is better than XX = ♦, 1♦ = ♥, 1♥ = ♠, 1♠ = ♣, or better : 1♠ = relay (maybe NT orientated) and 1NT = ♣.

[PhilKing]

fromageGB, on 2014-April-04, 16:55, said:

On the other hand, why confuse yourself with something that is completely different to what you would do without the X ?

I don't see how this is better than XX = ♦, 1♦ = ♥, 1♥ = ♠, 1♠ = ♣, or better : 1♠ = relay (maybe NT orientated) and 1NT = ♣.

It's basic theory. Diamonds are not important enough to use up your most economical call (that's the main reason we play transfers in the first place). You generally only want to show diamonds when you have no major, and if that is so you may as well cut out the one level. I won't go in to the possibilities of two-under transfers, but if you don't like complication, then you are free to play something simple.

[steve2005]

pass=0-4
Rdbl=5-7
1♦=♥
1♥=♠
1♠=balanced 8-13
1N=♣
2♣=♦
2♦=multi - weak 2 in a major
2♥=4441
2♠=5m440
2N=balanced 14+

[gnasher]

jallerton, on 2014-April-04, 11:32, said:

Playing Frances's suggestion, wrongsiding NT is not too much of a concern as Responder always has the option of showing his suit if he doesn't fancy declaring NT.

Sorry to harp on about this, but I don't see how this is supposed to help. As responder in this sequence I would never fancy declaring 1NT, because I'd always expect it to be better to put the doubler on lead.

Presumably with xx xxx AQ9xx xxx you show diamonds, because that seems descriptive. But what do you do with Axx xxx Qxxx Kxx? Bid 1NT and wrongside it, or show your diamond suit and hope partner isn't tempted to compete in the suit?

[fromageGB]

Gnasher has to be right. Opener is balanced, doubler is balanced, responder is often balanced and wants to do nothing except let opener play the hand in 1NT.

You need to get 4 suits and NT into 4 calls, so to combine 2 of them it seems sensible to have a relay that normally elicits 1NT and then allows clubs to be shown.