[kenrexford]

IMO, North can act in this sequence for one reason only. In my sequence, which involves four me bidders, West opened 1C. Because he didn't rebid 1S, club length is shortened to 2+. North didn't bid 1S or 2S earlier, so he has a situational value. The sv is contextually obvious, clubs and spades. So, the gain is the description, which offers a second landing zone. IMO, that's enough for the bid when white. The other gain is an expectation that I am preempting the opponents out of a likely diamond fit that has been buried by system.

If West had opened 1D, I would have less reason for bidding, strangely, because the strength inferences are lost and the preempting less effective, and hence less to gain.

[mikeh]

 kenrexford, on 2014-March-27, 09:34, said:

IMO, North can act in this sequence for one reason only. In my sequence, which involves four me bidders, West opened 1C. Because he didn't rebid 1S, club length is shortened to 2+. North didn't bid 1S or 2S earlier, so he has a situational value. The sv is contextually obvious, clubs and spades. So, the gain is the description, which offers a second landing zone. IMO, that's enough for the bid when white. The other gain is an expectation that I am preempting the opponents out of a likely diamond fit that has been buried by system.

If West had opened 1D, I would have less reason for bidding, strangely, because the strength inferences are lost and the preempting less effective, and hence less to gain.

LOL, I hadn't noticed, despite quoting your post, that you had ignored the OP systemic constraints to choose a highly non-standard (tho not 'weird') choice of opening bids. What is weird is that you then infer that this West, playing a system known only to you, could be short in clubs for the 1N rebid. That strikes me as extraordinary. Anyway, when an OP asks for advice within a particular framework, it is the height of self-indulgence to post an answer that not only ignores the OP but, without any disclosure, is based on an extremely unusual (to be polite) system wherein the 1N rebid could be 2+ clubs.

[kenberg]

It just occurred to me: Does "Most known gadgets" include having 1♦-Pass-1♥-1NT be sandwich? Whether it is sandwich or natural mikeh suggests that I take my my reluctance to bid 1NT seriously and act accordingly. Sounds like good advice.

[MrAce]

If 1 NT by S would be sandwich, then i think below auction is reasonable.

---

[kenrexford]

 mikeh, on 2014-March-27, 10:01, said:

LOL, I hadn't noticed, despite quoting your post, that you had ignored the OP systemic constraints to choose a highly non-standard (tho not 'weird') choice of opening bids. What is weird is that you then infer that this West, playing a system known only to you, could be short in clubs for the 1N rebid. That strikes me as extraordinary. Anyway, when an OP asks for advice within a particular framework, it is the height of self-indulgence to post an answer that not only ignores the OP but, without any disclosure, is based on an extremely unusual (to be polite) system wherein the 1N rebid could be 2+ clubs.

I am not sure that the part right above the hand pattern was there when I posted. I might have missed it. But, obviously I was using a short club approach if I opened 1C. And, it's not difficult to know the nuances of Opener's auction if I am bidding all four hands. True, I failed to alert myself, but I expect no adjustment.

And, how strange is a 1C opening these days?

[tedlevy]

P-P-P-1NT-
P-2H-P-2S-
P-P-P

Why is everybody opening the W hand?

[the hog]

 tedlevy, on 2014-March-27, 18:58, said:

P-P-P-1NT-
P-2H-P-2S-
P-P-P

Why is everybody opening the W hand?

Perhaps because it is an opening bid.

[1eyedjack]

 jgillispie, on 2014-March-26, 17:31, said:

-- Using SAYC; Most Known Gadgets

Oxymoron?

[Cascade]

 the hog, on 2014-March-26, 23:14, said:

1D 1S X 2H
P 2S P 3S

All pass.

I dont think many would be restrained enough to bid only 3♠.

[Cascade]

If west opens and north passes and east bids 1♥ then I would be tempted to overcall a natural 2♥.

[Lovera]

 mikeh, on 2014-March-27, 09:11, said:

Let me see if I understand this auction.

N passes over 1♦, which is entirely sensible. His spades are way too weak for anyone but a lunatic to pre-empt on and the hand/suit are too weak for a 1 level overcall.

Now LHO shows 4+ hearts and doesn't deny 4 spades, and is completely unlimited in strengthLa

RHO announces no fit for hearts, but may have 3 cards there, and I will even allow that 1N denies 4 spades (it wouldn't for a significant minority of players, including me, but it would for the substantial majority).


Now, with LHO having an extremely good idea of opener's strength and a pretty good idea of his shape, N bids 2♠, advertising a suit too weak to have bid the 1st time.

Hmmmm....I wonder why we are doing that? Because we like going for 500 on a partscore hand, or 800-1100 opposite their non-vul game?

As it happens, we can see that it is safe to do so, but in the world of real bridge, the notion that one should first let the opps exchange information and then, with LHO still unlimited, stick one's neck out is ludicrous, even at mps.

My preference would be for the auction to start as Ken suggests, but to have S reopen with a double. This shows a strong hand with strong, usually long, hearts, and suggests that N pass and lead a heart.

Make North 5=2=2=4 with the same hcp (say East is 4=4=2=3 and W 3=2=4=4) and we can see how effective that approach is. On a heart lead, we have an easy 300 on a partscore hand.

On the actual hand, I think N has a very tough decision as to whether to pass or pull. If he passes, he leads a heart, since that is what the double requests.

Btw, I reject 1N as S. We have a minimum in hcp and good reason to downgrade the heart suit by a touch. Had the opps not bid hearts, we would look at AKQ98 as having a reasonable prospect of generating 5 tricks, and would slightly upgrade. On the auction, there is a non trivial chance that this might generate only 3 tricks, and the chances of 5 are almost non-existent (I know, partner could hold Jx or Jxx, etc, but the odds are against it). Meanwhile, we have a very poor hand outside of hearts and nowhere to run if they double.

La surchiamata ritardata e' quella fatta da un giocatore che sia già passato. La dichiarazione e ' ordinariamente inserita quando vi sono segni che la licitazione avversaria sta per arrivare alla fine (The complete Stayman system of contract bidding pag. 239). Quil le cuori si affrancano con un taglio, il re di quadri e' in favorevole posizione , a fiori si può catturare la donna, la mano vale 10 prese.

[rmnka447]

I don't think the West hand is an opening bid -- 12 HCP, only 1 1/2 QTs, and 5 quacks.

Playing SAYC, my auction would start with South bidding 1 NT and would match the one tedlevy posted ending up in a sensible 2 ♠.