[32519]

Playing in the Main Bridge Club on BBO, a random pickup partner had Precision in his profile. So we agreed to play Precision. A couple of boards later you are dealt the hated 4441 hand pattern with 17 HCP. This falls into the definition/requirement for a Precision 1♣ opener.

Question:
What is your recommendation for threating these big 4441 hands?

[glen]

32519, on 2014-February-22, 23:24, said:

What is your recommendation for threating these big 4441 hands?

I'm not PrecisionL or JLOGIC, feel free to discard this, but I would threaten the 4441 with Meckwell Lite

[PrecisionL]

32519, on 2014-February-22, 23:24, said:

Playing in the Main Bridge Club on BBO, a random pickup partner had Precision in his profile. So we agreed to play Precision. A couple of boards later you are dealt the hated 4441 hand pattern with 17 HCP. This falls into the definition/requirement for a Precision 1♣ opener.

Question:
What is your recommendation for threating these big 4441 hands?

It is not clear what you are asking.
Does responder have a positive response, or a negative response of 1♦.

Edited: 16:30 pm EST

[glen]

PrecisionL, on 2014-February-23, 15:04, said:

If you are asking how to bid 4441 hands in a Precision context ...

seems to be asking how to bid 4441 opening hands, not responding ones

[PrecisionL]

glen, on 2014-February-23, 15:19, said:

seems to be asking how to bid 4441 opening hands, not responding ones

Glen, You are correct it took me several readings to understand the question.

Use the One Club Complete approach (by Kathie Wei and Judi Radin):

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ = 4+ ♥ and one round force. If you have a singleton ♥: 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♠, 4+ ♠ and one round force.

If the question is how to bid this hand after a positive response, usually rebid NT or raise, but do NOT bid a 4M as opener's 1st rebid over a positive response.

This is an item for partnership discussion as there is no standard agreement, except that 1st round bids show at least 5cd suits.

[phoenix214]

There was a trick in revision where you had a semi-automatic 1♦ response, that they used a delayed roman 2♦.
Technically you can try that in normal prec after a negative as well:
1♣-1♦:
1♥:Hearts or Bal
1♠:Nat
1NT♣:Clubs
2♣:Diamonds
2♦:4441 shape
The transfers where in a book from the 90ies, and inspired this idea

[32519]

PrecisionL, on 2014-February-23, 15:27, said:

Use the One Club Complete approach (by Kathie Wei and Judi Radin):
[indent]
1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ = 4+ ♥ and one round force. If you have a singleton ♥: 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♠, 4+ ♠ and one round force.

How does the auction continue after the one round force?

[PrecisionL]

32519, on 2014-February-23, 21:25, said:

How does the auction continue after the one round force?

This is the scheme played by Cohen - Berkowitz:

1♣ - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) - 1♥ - 1♠ = 4+[spades & 0-7 hcp] - 1NT = 16-19 (or whatever range you decide)

1♣ - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) - 1♥ - 1NT (0-4 hcp) -

1♣ - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) - 1♥ - 2♣ = 5-7 hcp and 0-2♥

1♣ - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) - 1♥ - 2♦ = 5-7 hcp and 3♥

1♣ - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) - 1♥ - 2♥ = 3-5 hcp and 4+♥

1♣ - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) - 1♥ - 2♠ = 3-5 hcp and 4♥ & unknown splinter (2NT asks)

[Zelandakh]

It is not Precision but I thought I would mention that my strong club features a specialist sequence for strong 3-suited hands, namely: 1♣ (15+ nat/bal or 18+ any) - 1♦ (most non-GF hands) - 1♠ = 18+ 3-suited or any unbal GF. After this start Responder bids 1NT with a max and then 2♣ shows the 3-suiter Others are GF and natural); or 2♣ with a bust (now 2♦ is the strong 3-suiter); or 2♦ in-between (then 2NT is the strong 3-suiter). The follow-ups allow Responder to differentiate between 4 ranges (18-19, 20-21, 22-23, 24+) and between a singleton or a void in the short suit. All is based loosely on Chris Ryall's method which I have previously linked to you.

16-17 point 3-suited hands are opened 1♦ (4441, 4144, 1444) or treated as balanced and opened 1♣ (for 4414). The 4414 pattern has a specialised rebid after a positive response and can also be shown explicitly after a transfer (link with your super-accept thread).

Within Precision itself, several variants (eg Superprecision) specifically allow a 4441 pattern within the 1M rebids (or sometimes do so implicitly and gloss over this in the commentary). Others (eg Power Precision) avoid the issue by including the hand type within the 2♦ opening). This last might be of interest to you in refining the Lee 2♦). Another way is to use one or more specialised rebids, such as the 1♣ - 1♦; 2♦ from Revision Club.