[RunemPard]

Playing in Sweden..misplayed card from dummy.

I was declaring a hopeless contract today and found a clever play to give myself a chance to make my 3Sx contract. I thought for awhile holding...
I will put a hand diagram up soon if my explanation is too confusing in text..

My partner holds...

S: -
H: x
D: -
C: AJ43

I hold...

S: x
H: -
D: Q
C: T82

Based on the bidding, I know that my LHO has the only remaining diamonds (including the K). He has 3 clubs and 2 diamonds.

My RHO has 3 clubs and 2 hearts.

I play the 8 of clubs from my hand hoping for my LHO to not cover with the 9 if holding H9x. I tell my partner to take a small club when LHO plays the 6 under my 8. In Swedish(not my native language) this sounds like jack. He plays the jack as I am looking at my hand and RHO wins with the K. When I notice what has happened as he returns the heart, I shout out that I called for a small. They say it doesn't matter, the cards are played. I continue to argue explaining exactly how I am playing the hand and the holdings I need to make and when it will fail. I explain to RHO that I know he has no remaining diamonds, must play a heart for me to ruff and take the now good club finesse or play clubs himself. With clubs breaking 3/3 I will have a discard for my losing D and make exactly. The director rules 2 back as it was with the failed finesse.

Is this the correct call? It was a huge bummer for me to find the only winning line and have it not go my way when I manage to pull it off.

I felt robbed and sick to my stomach after this hand. Ruined my whole evening.

-Don

This post has been edited by barmar: 2014-January-27, 16:59
Reason for edit: rearrange declarer and dummy

[campboy]

RunemPard, on 2014-January-27, 16:17, said:

I play the 8 of clubs from my hand hoping for my LHO to not cover with the 9 if holding H9x. I tell my partner to take a small club when LHO plays the 6 under my 8. In Swedish(not my native language) this sounds like jack. He plays the jack as I am looking at my hand and RHO wins with the K. When I notice what has happened as he returns the heart, I shout out that I called for a small. They say it doesn't matter, the cards are played.

They're wrong: if dummy plays the wrong card it must be changed if attention is drawn to it before each side has played to the next trick (Law 45D). So unless you had already played to the heart return, you are in time.

[barmar]

I think you should be able to roll it back. Law 45D:

Quote

If dummy places in the played position a card that declarer did not name, the card must be withdrawn if attention is drawn to it before each side has played to the next trick, and a defender may withdraw and return to his hand a card played after the error but before attention was drawn to it

You drew attention to the incorrect play when RHO played to the next trick, but before you'd played, so the timing criteria of this law is met.

The cards RHO has played since dummy misplayed are UI to you, AI to LHO, per Law 16D.

[Vampyr]

For future, is there another word you could use for jack, an equivalent of "knave"? Also for future, it is always your right to ask the director to read out the Law on which he is basing his ruling. (Or bring your own book and read it to him )

[blackshoe]

Vampyr, on 2014-January-27, 17:51, said:

For future, is there another word you could use for jack, an equivalent of "knave"? Also for future, it is always your right to ask the director to read out the Law on which he is basing his ruling. (Or bring your own book and read it to him )

I once asked a director at a tournament, with whose ruling I disagreed, "what about Law such-and-such?" She replied "Don't quote law numbers at me!" and stomped off. Later, I saw her sitting at an empty table, reading her law book. Later still, she came back to me and apologized, saying that I was right. I do not remember if she changed her ruling, though.

I once asked a club director to read the law relevant to her ruling from the book. Her reply: "I can't. The book's in the car."

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2014-January-27, 18:38, said:

I once a club director to read the law relevant to her ruling from the book. Her reply: "I can't. The book's in the car."

When I took my County Director's Course, the first segment was "Book Rulings". The teacher asked, "How do we make book rulings?" And I was quick with the correct answer: With the book.

Where I play the director does not arrive at the table without the book in her hand. Maybe this is the case where the OP plays, but as I mentioned, you could bring your own copy and helpfully lend it to the director.

[barmar]

Vampyr, on 2014-January-27, 17:51, said:

For future, is there another word you could use for jack, an equivalent of "knave"? Also for future, it is always your right to ask the director to read out the Law on which he is basing his ruling. (Or bring your own book and read it to him )

The problem wasn't the word for Jack, it was the word for "small", which happens to sound like "jack". Even if you would have said "knave" if you meant the Jack, your partner might still hear "jack".

All these threads about dummy and/or opponents mishearing declarer's designations remind me of how they addressed this in a different, more critical field of endeavor. If you've ever wondered by airplane pilots and control towers say "niner" instead of "nine", it's because the latter sounds just like the German word "nein". Since sometimes every second counts when trying to avoid an airline collision, making sure every word is clearly understood is critical. It's also why they use the "alpha foxtrot tango" phonetic system for spelling out letter sequences -- there's no time for "Did you say B or D?"

However, despite what it says on one of my T-shirts, bridge is not a life or death situation, it's just a game. We could try to get everyone to say "9-spot" instead of just "9", but it probably won't catch on because misunderstandings are so rare, and the consequences are just not serious enough.

[Bbradley62]

If declarer is speaking in Swedish, not his native tongue, and the other three at the table (presumably native Swedish speakers) all heard him call for the Jack, I don't see how the director can think anything other than that the declarer mistakenly called for the Jack.

[blackshoe]

Vampyr, on 2014-January-27, 18:48, said:

When I took my County Director's Course, the first segment was "Book Rulings". The teacher asked, "How do we make book rulings?" And I was quick with the correct answer: With the book.

Where I play the director does not arrive at the table without the book in her hand. Maybe this is the case where the OP plays, but as I mentioned, you could bring your own copy and helpfully lend it to the director.

When I direct, I always bring the book to the table. I am, I think, in the minority in North America, where directors seem to take pride in their ability to recite rulings from memory*. Not to mention that players often think - and will complain vociferously - that reading a ruling from the book wastes time.

*Certainly, around here, I don't think any other frequent director carries the book with them, although I do know one person who does bring the book with her on the rare occasions when she directs. I taught her that.

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2014-January-27, 22:51, said:

North America, where directors seem to take pride in their ability to recite rulings from memory

This is not considered a valuable skill here. The only,thing we are expected to know by heart and do without the book is opening leads out of turn.

I'm not saying that the Lawbook is opened for every single oruling, but if it's not simple the book is used. Some directors have no training at all and don't know their way around the Lawbook (ours has no Table of Contents). These will usually ask the advice of a more experienced director.

[Vampyr]

Bbradley62, on 2014-January-27, 22:39, said:

If declarer is speaking in Swedish, not his native tongue, and the other three at the table (presumably native Swedish speakers) all heard him call for the Jack, I don't see how the director can think anything other than that the declarer mistakenly called for the Jack.

Not so. When I lived in Russia people had trouble distinguishing my designations for clubs and hearts, but that didn't mean that the card I called was what the other three people at the table thought they heard.

[iviehoff]

Out of interest, what words do you use for calling small/low and what word for jack is it confused with? I'm using some sources to try and assess the Swedish words for these things and I can't immediately see any risk of confusion.

[Trinidad]

iviehoff, on 2014-January-28, 08:56, said:

Out of interest, what words do you use for calling small/low and what word for jack is it confused with? I'm using some sources to try and assess the Swedish words for these things and I can't immediately see any risk of confusion.

I was wondering about that too. For me, the Swedish word for "the jack" is "knekten" and "small" is "liten" or "hacka". I wouldn't get these confused.

Perhaps he pronounces "hacka" with an "a" like in the American English "dance", instead of like the British English "dance"?

Rik

[Bbradley62]

Vampyr, on 2014-January-27, 23:19, said:

Not so. When I lived in Russia people had trouble distinguishing my designations for clubs and hearts, but that didn't mean that the card I called was what the other three people at the table thought they heard.

If three out of three people misunderstand you, you have to find a better way of communicating your intentions.

[Vampyr]

Bbradley62, on 2014-January-28, 09:42, said:

If three out of three people misunderstand you, you have to find a better way of communicating your intentions.

What would you suggest?

[blackshoe]

Vampyr, on 2014-January-28, 09:51, said:

What would you suggest?

About the second or third time I called for a card from dummy, only to discover that the other three at the table thought I'd called for something else, I'd stop using dummy (the player) as my proxy, and start picking up dummy's (the hand's) cards and placing them in the "played" position myself.

[barmar]

Vampyr, on 2014-January-28, 09:51, said:

What would you suggest?

Diction classes?

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2014-January-28, 10:21, said:

About the second or third time I called for a card from dummy, only to discover that the other three at the table thought I'd called for something else, I'd stop using dummy (the player) as my proxy, and start picking up dummy's (the hand's) cards and placing them in the "played" position myself.

Well, it didn't happen that often, and anyway I find it annoying when an opponent plays dummy's cards unless dummy has gone to the bar, so I wouldn't want to do this.

[barmar]

That should only be necessary if declarer has a serious speech impediment. We should all be willing to make accomodations in extreme circumstances. This one seems like a pretty minor accomodation, since the Laws explicitly permit declarer to play cards from dummy -- most other accomodations for disabilities require bending the Laws.

[mycroft]

I learned Parisian French, <mumble> years ago. I played in Montreal. My accent was bad because it had been 6 or so years, and I never was fluent, and we didn't emphasize conversation in my French classes (which was dumb, but I don't set the curriculum), but also because my accent was 4000 miles off.

Yes, I had some people who misunderstood me (especially with "coeur", heart). I had one who simply refused to understand me (but only one; I was very impressed). I guess I have a "serious speech impediment". Should I switch to English, which "everybody in Montreal knows"? Maybe I can speak LOUDLY and DISTINCTLY in ENGLISH and that would help?

Sometimes this happens. The Law, however, is the Law. If it happens often enough with this partner, find something else.

Oh, and it's "Top" and "eight-spot".