Have you done enough with this very nice 7 count at IMPs all red
#2
Posted 2014-February-09, 05:30
AKJxx, x, AK, xxxxx for example is a potential grand on a non trump lead and an excellent small on a trump lead.
#3
Posted 2014-February-09, 06:54
#4
Posted 2014-February-09, 10:18
Slam depends on pard's diamond holding and there's no way he's gonna find out a 5C bid from me is based on a void (or a short at least). He'll have every reason to bid to a hopeless 6 on
AKxxx
x
Qxx
Axxx
#5
Posted 2014-February-09, 10:49
Partner will overvalue club honors but won't bid slam without a diamond control as per the above example.
What is baby oil made of?
#6
Posted 2014-February-09, 10:51
x
Axx
Qxxx
Why can't partner hold this hand? If you feel lucky 5♣ is the scientific way to go. A jump to 6♠ will work sometimes, too.
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
My YouTube Channel
#7
Posted 2014-February-09, 14:05
Oh, and partner does not have AK AK with good shape.
#8
Posted 2014-February-09, 16:35
cherdano, on 2014-February-09, 14:05, said:
Oh, and partner does not have AK AK with good shape.
Partner has climbed in vulnerable opposite a passed partner, he doesn't have a really bad 2♠ either, AKJxx, x, A8x, xxxx is potentially enough to make the slam, it gets much better if he has a 6th spade. Also he doesn't have to go nuts opposite our 4♥ as our hand is limited by failure to open.
#9
Posted 2014-February-09, 18:04
Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-09, 16:35, said:
So how are you going to find out whether partner has this hand or AKJxx x Ax xxxxx? And you did give partner AKA with no wastage...
#10
Posted 2014-February-09, 18:07
#11
Posted 2014-February-09, 18:17
cherdano, on 2014-February-09, 18:04, said:
I gave partner AKA with no wastage because I expect him to have more than that most of the time, even opposite your hand the chance of the weak 2 opener having ♦Hx gives me play.
Yes partner can have an unsuitable hand, but it's going to be rare for 5 not to be decent. Yes AKJxx, x, Qxx, KJxx is perfectly possible and it might go off on a diamond lead, but they have to find it, if partner has AKJxx, J, xxx, KQxx OK I got it wrong, but I think I'm making 6 more often than I'm going off in 5.
Edit: there is also a question of philosophy here, in my partnership "are we bidding and making 6 more often than we're going off in 5 (or 6 if we bid it)" is basically the question we ask ourselves, other people like to be more certain that 5 is secure than we do.
#12
Posted 2014-February-09, 20:56
Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-09, 18:17, said:
In my partnership "do I have a seven count with a possibly worthless ♠Q and a ♥A opposite partner's void, and did I give partner a chance to bid on with a good hand, and did he just tell me to shove off despite likely holding a heart void, and am I really still sitting here wondering what to do" is basically the question we ask ourselves.
#13
Posted 2014-February-09, 21:52
#14
Posted 2014-February-09, 22:02
xxxxx xxxx JT98 void The heart A is a trick but it will rarely be trick 12.
Do we really wish to push on when all p could do was bid 4s after we bid 4h????
Pass now and accept partners decision to not go slamming even though you tried
with your 4h bid. Once in a while P will have a perfecto but maybe not often enough
to make up for some 6 and even 5 level contracts failing.
#15
Posted 2014-February-10, 04:24
quiddity, on 2014-February-09, 20:56, said:
This is the most ridiculous post I've seen in a while, partner is going to think a load of small clubs are terrible when in fact they're great. The Q♠ is potentially extremely important as I may be playing a complete crossruff and it won't be overruffed, the 5th spade is absolutely vast, my hand has become a clear opener in the knowledge that partner has spades. Also with all these intermediates, I'd have opened this hand with another Q, so I'm pretty max, is partner really expected to see that AKxxxx, (x), KQ/Ax(x), xxxx is dynamite ? I'd bid as I have with say QJx, Axxx, xxx, Kxxx and my hand is several tricks better than that.
#16
Posted 2014-February-10, 05:16
Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-10, 04:24, said:
I think you are really way off. Partner is never going to figure out that you have club shortness, so how is he supposed to stop with club shortage and go one with diamond values?
If you want to bid on now, you should have started with a 5♣ splinter over 3♥ - at least, then you would get to slam opposite the right hands more often.
#17
Posted 2014-February-10, 05:18
Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-09, 18:17, said:
I don't think there will be many hands where slam is better than 60%. You need 5 such hands for every hand where you go down in 5♠.
#18
Posted 2014-February-10, 05:56
cherdano, on 2014-February-10, 05:16, said:
If you want to bid on now, you should have started with a 5♣ splinter over 3♥ - at least, then you would get to slam opposite the right hands more often.
I would have bid 5♣ first time, but was going with the OP, and from my point of view with a passed hand I'm only going on here with something exceptional, so 5♣ IS a void almost all the time.
cherdano, on 2014-February-10, 05:18, said:
don't get this maths at all
Assuming game at the other table, going off in 5 costs you 12, making 6 gains you 13 so why 5:1 ?
Also you seem to think partner will bid on much more often than I do.
#19
Posted 2014-February-10, 09:31
Although you haven't shown your ♣ control, you have already shown the value of your hand with your 4 ♥ bid. Unless opener has made an unusual weak 2 bid with 5 vulnerable or responder has raised with a doubleton, your A ♥ is probably only useful to provide a pitch from partner's hand.
You have no reason to suspect the high card assets in the hand are split any more than evenly between the pairs. Putting specific cards in partner's hand is never a good idea unless bridge logic really tells you they are there. Here you have no idea what partner holds and really never will be able to find out. If partner holds the right values, slam might be lay down. But as likely, if partner holds the wrong cards, 4 ♠ goes down. Making an additional move toward slam at this point is a top or bottom shot in the dark.
Partner heard your 4 ♥ and didn't make any further move toward slam. Since bidding is a cooperative process, I think it's right to accept partner's judgment and pass.
#20
Posted 2014-February-10, 14:53
Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-10, 05:56, said:
I thought about it, but with this partner we:
1. Don't play exclusion
2. Do play in general fit jumps by passed hands and in competition
Now a fit jump above game likely doesn't really make sense (although maybe it shows all my values in my 10 black cards?), but I didn't want to pull it out undisucssed and test partner with this.