[Sadie3]

I recently attended a Sectional playing with a new partner. We had discussed our bidding styles online and came to agreements on most standard situations but had never played as partners before. I have researched Hardy, Lawrence and Dee Berry 2/1 books to find their recommended treatment of a 3 card game force raise of a major suit with a balanced hand. We had also agreed to open fairly light with distributional hands even in 1st and 2nd seats. With this hand... X AQXXX AX XXXXX I gamely open 1H in first seat.

My partner holding KXX KXX KXX KJXX BIDS 3NT and.... I pass for down 1.

In the rehash, my partner tells me that I must correct to 4H on this hand because I am guaranteed that he has 3 H support per Hardy which he was quoting as his source. I did not have my Hardy reference book with me so I had to wait 'til I returned home to see if Hardy, indeed, did support that bid. Nope, he does not mention it anywhere...but I continued on to check my Lawrence source and also my Dee Berry 2/1 in a Nutshell teaching guide. Finally, in Dee Berry's materials I found that this treatment (with prior agreement) is used by some players...no name mentioned as an authority on it, though.

My local clubs treat the 3 card game force raise in a couple ways with the most common being to use 2C as a catch all game force bid and then proceed with cue bidding or shut out bids.

If I interpreted Lawrence correctly he suggests using 1NT forcing and then bidding the appropriate number of Hearts on the 2nd bid. Actually, my Lawrence book kind of ignores the 3 card raise altogether.

My argument that the 3NT bid is just wrong...is that it tries to mastermind the auction, it takes up way too much bidding room, and does not allow exploration of possibilities of more than game contracts.

Since we had not discussed this auction in our pregame talks, I believed my partner had less than 3 Hearts and was afraid to try to correct to 4 H with my hand. I actually expected him to have a long running diamond suit and a stopper in spades with his bid.

What is your treatment?

[ggwhiz]

We also open light on shapely hands and a 3nt response promises exactly 4x3 shape so that opener has an escape hatch. Thoroughly discussed and I would NEVER spring it on a partner otherwise. Just make a most convenient 2/1 and carry on.

This agreement is fairly common locally but not written up anywhere to my knowledge.

[aguahombre]

We use our absolutely forcing 1NT followed by a jump to 3NT with hands where we want to give opener a choice between 3NT and 4M. It requires discussion about what happens when Opener doesn't or can't make a 2m rebid, however. And it is in context with a lot of other things as well.

[Trinidad]

 ggwhiz, on 2013-November-13, 14:16, said:

This agreement is fairly common locally but not written up anywhere to my knowledge.

It's a part of Bergen raises and described in Better Bidding with Bergen Volume One, p. 40:

Quote

The last three-level response [to 1M] is 3NT. We play this as a balanced non-forcing three-card raise, offering a choice of contracts. Partner can pass, sign off in four of the trump suit, or even cuebid toward slam. We try to be 4-3-3-3 with stopper in all unbid suits.

This is followed by three examples of hands that would bid 3NT in response to 1♥.

Rik

[wyman]

I start with 2m and then bid the major at my second turn. 1M-3N for me is conventional and does not show a 4x3.

[RSClyde]

With those 4333 hands I just bid 2♣ and raise 2nt to 3nt if partner rebids that.

[mycroft]

There are two common meanings for 1M-3NT in my area (and by gum, I do check with a new partner!):

• 13-15, balanced with 2M. Probably (32)44.
  
• 13-15, 3M(433).

It's a hugely high bid, so it has to be rigidly defined; partner has to know, effectively, what to do. With your hand, no matter what the agreement, I'd pull - I expect them to take 4 spades and an entry if he's got the 2-card support hand (I'd bid 4♣ and see where we end up. That's not Gerber is it?), and, well, I have a preference opposite the 4333 (4♥ here, I don't want to suggest a slam).

It's in no, never, case "a 3-card game force raise" - that's just unplayable :-).

[Trinidad]

 RSClyde, on 2013-November-13, 22:49, said:

With those 4333 hands I just bid 2♣ and raise 2nt to 3nt if partner rebids that.

That's certainly possible, but I like my 2 over 1's to show something. It's a matter of style, but I dislike bidding 2/1 on a four card suit. Of course, there are hands where I can't avoid it (e.g. a 3=2=4=4 with 17 HCPs).

I agree that it is eassy when partner bids 2NT, but you have a problem when partner doesn't bid 2NT. What do you do if he rebids hearts or bids a new suit? What if he raises clubs? Are you going for NT or hearts? If you go for hearts, what do you rebid? 3♥? Doesn't that suggest a slam going hand with a potential trick source in clubs? 4♥? Doesn't that show a heart game with a club side suit?

So, all is fine when partner rebids 2NT. Just bid 3NT and it will be right. But if he doesn't bid NT, you don't know whether to go for NT (denying your heart support) or for hearts (showing a club suit that you don't have).

I kind of like having a trick available that tells partner precisely what I have and that takes the phony bids out of other auctions.

Rik

[aguahombre]

 mycroft, on 2013-November-14, 11:33, said:

There are two common meanings for 1M-3NT in my area (and by gum, I do check with a new partner!):

• 13-15, balanced with 2M. Probably (32)44.
  
• 13-15, 3M(433).

It's in no, never, case "a 3-card game force raise" - that's just unplayable :-).

Apparently, it is sometimes the case in your area. It is playable, even though we like the two-step 1N then 3NT better, since it gives us room when Opener has something other than a 5-3-3-2 routine 1M opener.

[mike777]

 Sadie3, on 2013-November-13, 13:37, said:

I recently attended a Sectional playing with a new partner. We had discussed our bidding styles online and came to agreements on most standard situations but had never played as partners before. I have researched Hardy, Lawrence and Dee Berry 2/1 books to find their recommended treatment of a 3 card game force raise of a major suit with a balanced hand. We had also agreed to open fairly light with distributional hands even in 1st and 2nd seats. With this hand... X AQXXX AX XXXXX I gamely open 1H in first seat.

My partner holding KXX KXX KXX KJXX BIDS 3NT and.... I pass for down 1.

In the rehash, my partner tells me that I must correct to 4H on this hand because I am guaranteed that he has 3 H support per Hardy which he was quoting as his source. I did not have my Hardy reference book with me so I had to wait 'til I returned home to see if Hardy, indeed, did support that bid. Nope, he does not mention it anywhere...but I continued on to check my Lawrence source and also my Dee Berry 2/1 in a Nutshell teaching guide. Finally, in Dee Berry's materials I found that this treatment (with prior agreement) is used by some players...no name mentioned as an authority on it, though.

My local clubs treat the 3 card game force raise in a couple ways with the most common being to use 2C as a catch all game force bid and then proceed with cue bidding or shut out bids.

If I interpreted Lawrence correctly he suggests using 1NT forcing and then bidding the appropriate number of Hearts on the 2nd bid. Actually, my Lawrence book kind of ignores the 3 card raise altogether.

My argument that the 3NT bid is just wrong...is that it tries to mastermind the auction, it takes up way too much bidding room, and does not allow exploration of possibilities of more than game contracts.

Since we had not discussed this auction in our pregame talks, I believed my partner had less than 3 Hearts and was afraid to try to correct to 4 H with my hand. I actually expected him to have a long running diamond suit and a stopper in spades with his bid.

What is your treatment?

As others mentioned this is part of Bergen and has been around for decades, nothing new here. If you are not playing a Bergen style ok, pard should not spring this on you. Playing with a new pard with little discussion as most of us do, can often lead to stuff like this, often.

btw I note in BWS 3nt is weak:

g) three notrump or a triple raise is a weak preemptive raise, the former showing some defensive strength

[Sadie3]

Thank you all for the input. I have added this information to my bridge arsenal and will be better prepared next time. For those that cite Bergen as the source of the 1M-3NT response showing exactly 3-4-3-3 with 13-15... I searched online and found that there were a couple sites that supported the Bergen 3NT bid and that there was at least one site that had a lesson number 36.2 of Bergen raises that stated to bid 2 of a minor then support with 3 cards to game.

My conclusion is that this bid is not for the casual partnership but that it has its usage with a committed and long term competitive partnership.

[mycroft]

 aguahombre, on 2013-November-14, 12:11, said:

Apparently, it is sometimes the case in your area.

The difference between "exactly 3M433, 13-15" and "3-card game force raise" should be clear. Sort of the difference between a 18-20 1NT opener and a Romex Dynamic NT, one would think.

[blackshoe]

 mycroft, on 2013-November-14, 15:52, said:

The difference between "exactly 3M433, 13-15" and "3-card game force raise" should be clear. Sort of the difference between a 18-20 1NT opener and a Romex Dynamic NT, one would think.

Heh. Much of learning Romex is learning when not to open 1NT.

[fromageGB]

For me a balanced game hand with 3 card support starts 2♣ (multipurpose GF(except invitational when responder rebids 2♥), and with normal hands opener rebids 2♦ relay), then rebids 3♥. 1♥ 3NT is 11/12 splinter with void in diamonds (4♦ would be singleton, using both bids to make ace asking easier).

[steve2005]

throw in my 2 cents since didn't see it mentioned. saw in Acol book and like cause a bid of 3N is so high should be a picture bid.
3N is 4M333 with 4 of opener's major and like 12-15 or 13-15 hcp, as you prefer.
so usually opener will bid 4M, but can pass 3N or make slam try.

[rbforster]

I would just add that in general, and especially if you open light, 13-15hcp is probably too light for the direct 3NT jump when it shows a balanced raise. When I play this raise, I play 15-17. This is because on a minimum combined strength for game 4M is likely to make more often than 3NT, while with some extra strength in terms of HCP, 3NT is much safer and is more likely to take the same number of tricks. I would add that the 3NT bid should deny 4OM, so is typically 33(43) shape.

[Zelandakh]

 steve2005, on 2013-November-17, 15:38, said:

throw in my 2 cents since didn't see it mentioned. saw in Acol book and like cause a bid of 3N is so high should be a picture bid.
3N is 4M333 with 4 of opener's major and like 12-15 or 13-15 hcp, as you prefer.
so usually opener will bid 4M, but can pass 3N or make slam try.

This is called a pudding raise and is part of the EBU Modern Acol system.

FwiiW I use 1♠ - 3NT to show a spade splinter raise with a side void and 1♥ - 3NT as a heart splinter raise with a spade singleton. I think splitting up the splinters by singleton/void or by strength (if you do not have an alternative way of showing the "in-between" range) is more useful than any of the natural possibilties.

[fromageGB]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-November-18, 05:24, said:

I think splitting up the splinters by singleton/void or by strength (if you do not have an alternative way of showing the "in-between" range) is more useful than any of the natural possibilties.

I fully agree with this, but to separate by strength or by void/singleton with simple 4-level splinters for 2 of the suits you can simply use the next step as a singleton or void ask (or strength ask) prior to ace asking. It is only the suit beneath trumps that needs the split in the splinter bid itself. This is my 3NT usage as in #14. {Edit : so my 1♠ 3NT is a heart void}