Sanity check Clubs and points
#21
Posted 2012-November-15, 11:58
Seems this one-hand thread morphed into a two hand thread.
On the first, if playing mps in a weak field, I'd bid 2N because I expect to play the hand as well or better than my seat-mates, and I don't have any respect for most players bidding so am not too worried about missing slam. I know this sounds condescending, but I suspect that most good players have the same attitude (even if they wouldn't make this call). In a real game, including all imp games, I'd bid 3♣ since I am not often missing a making game via this, which I would have reached via 2N, and I like this hand for slam purposes if partner has decent values. Not to mention that sometimes 5m is better than 3N.
On the second, I bid 4♣. While I am a little light on hcp, I am heavy on controls. Not only are all my controls golden, but they mean that partner will not go crazy on me unless he has well-fitting cards. He will be reluctant to overbid when missing AK A A, so that balances and justifies my overbid on those cards. I can't imagine just bidding 3♠. It's not that I fear missing a lot of games, since I invite heavy and accept light for game purposes, but he won't even consider slam with say Qxxxx Kx xx Axxx opposite 3♠
On the first, if playing mps in a weak field, I'd bid 2N because I expect to play the hand as well or better than my seat-mates, and I don't have any respect for most players bidding so am not too worried about missing slam. I know this sounds condescending, but I suspect that most good players have the same attitude (even if they wouldn't make this call). In a real game, including all imp games, I'd bid 3♣ since I am not often missing a making game via this, which I would have reached via 2N, and I like this hand for slam purposes if partner has decent values. Not to mention that sometimes 5m is better than 3N.
On the second, I bid 4♣. While I am a little light on hcp, I am heavy on controls. Not only are all my controls golden, but they mean that partner will not go crazy on me unless he has well-fitting cards. He will be reluctant to overbid when missing AK A A, so that balances and justifies my overbid on those cards. I can't imagine just bidding 3♠. It's not that I fear missing a lot of games, since I invite heavy and accept light for game purposes, but he won't even consider slam with say Qxxxx Kx xx Axxx opposite 3♠
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#22
Posted 2012-November-15, 17:03
lalldonn, on 2012-November-15, 11:08, said:
As for this particular hand I am not saying 2NT is insane but I don't know why you would do it. If partner is passing our bid I'd probably rather be in 3♣ than 2NT. If partner is bidding over it then I don't see what 2NT gained for me.
Over 2NT, partner won't worry about major suit stoppers. And we probably right-sided 3NT.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#23
Posted 2012-November-15, 17:09
I would bid 2N but I feel like it's w/e.
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#24
Posted 2012-November-16, 06:28
lalldonn, on 2012-November-15, 11:08, said:
I learned 3♣ as 16-18, don't know where 15-17 came from. I would rebid 2♣ with 11-15, which of course has a wider range since there is more room to invite over it.
As for this particular hand I am not saying 2NT is insane but I don't know why you would do it. If partner is passing our bid I'd probably rather be in 3♣ than 2NT. If partner is bidding over it then I don't see what 2NT gained for me. It's not like opening 1NT on a slightly worse hand, where I get the advantages of preemption and hiding my shape. They already aren't bidding and they know I have clubs. Is it just a matter of fooling them a little?
As for this particular hand I am not saying 2NT is insane but I don't know why you would do it. If partner is passing our bid I'd probably rather be in 3♣ than 2NT. If partner is bidding over it then I don't see what 2NT gained for me. It's not like opening 1NT on a slightly worse hand, where I get the advantages of preemption and hiding my shape. They already aren't bidding and they know I have clubs. Is it just a matter of fooling them a little?
If we belong in a partial, 3♣ is likely to be safer than 2NT. Also if we belong in a high level club contract, a 3♣ rebid has better chances of getting us there.
However, both are narrow targets.
Most likely we belong in 3NT, most likely it should be played from this side.
Showing 18-19 gives the right encouragement for a close 3NT without telling opponents much about our hand.
It is not true that they know you have club tricks, even more so if 2NT might bypass a 4 card major.
This will often make the lead and defense against an eventual 3NT more difficult than if we rebid 3♣.
People often lead passive if you show a strong balanced hand.
On average 2NT has more to gain than to loose.
Rainer Herrmann
#25
Posted 2012-November-16, 10:46
rhm, on 2012-November-16, 06:28, said:
If we belong in a partial, 3♣ is likely to be safer than 2NT. Also if we belong in a high level club contract, a 3♣ rebid has better chances of getting us there.
However, both are narrow targets.
Most likely we belong in 3NT, most likely it should be played from this side.
Showing 18-19 gives the right encouragement for a close 3NT without telling opponents much about our hand.
It is not true that they know you have club tricks, even more so if 2NT might bypass a 4 card major.
This will often make the lead and defense against an eventual 3NT more difficult than if we rebid 3♣.
People often lead passive if you show a strong balanced hand.
On average 2NT has more to gain than to loose.
Rainer Herrmann
However, both are narrow targets.
Most likely we belong in 3NT, most likely it should be played from this side.
Showing 18-19 gives the right encouragement for a close 3NT without telling opponents much about our hand.
It is not true that they know you have club tricks, even more so if 2NT might bypass a 4 card major.
This will often make the lead and defense against an eventual 3NT more difficult than if we rebid 3♣.
People often lead passive if you show a strong balanced hand.
On average 2NT has more to gain than to loose.
Rainer Herrmann
If you belong in a club partial, you can not get there after 2NT.
If you belong in a club game or slam, you can get there after 2NT but it's quite difficult.
If you belong in 3NT, you will get there easily after either rebid.
I won't argue strongly. If you are hiding your hand or trying to mildly deceive about it, ok. But I would rather show my hand and increase my chances of reaching the best contract whatever it may be, not be focused on the one most likely contract which I don't yet know I belong in.
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
- billw55
- billw55
#26
Posted 2012-November-16, 11:42
If you can show a strong 3C bid then that's what I'd do. If not I'd bid 2NT because I think that the hand is too good for 3C.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#27
Posted 2012-November-17, 06:24
han, on 2012-November-16, 11:42, said:
If you can show a strong 3C bid then that's what I'd do. If not I'd bid 2NT because I think that the hand is too good for 3C.
What does your 3♣ show?
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win
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