3♣ showed extras. 5nt was pick-a-slam.
How to stay out of this one ?
#1
Posted 2012-November-02, 00:22
3♣ showed extras. 5nt was pick-a-slam.
#2
Posted 2012-November-02, 02:10
#3
Posted 2012-November-02, 02:10
#4
Posted 2012-November-02, 05:55
Zelandakh, on 2012-November-02, 02:10, said:
This was my first thought, we have the agreement to bid strong but not GF 5-5 in the blacks this way (we open weaker ones 1♠, and the same hand without 2 of the 3 red cards ie 2 good suits but not a great hand we'd bid 1♣-1♥-2♠ NF).
#5
Posted 2012-November-02, 06:21
I like the bidding till 3 Clubs. I had bid 4 ♥ over this: A hand worth a 2/1 but just about hearts, no tolerance for spades or clubs and I do not care much about a fit.
If north makes another move, it will be 4 NT, which I would identify as RCKB for hearts and we will still stop in 5 Hearts, missing an ace and the queen of hearts...
If 2♥ 4 ♥ opposite an non-fitting two suiter does not show this hand, what does it show?
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#6
Posted 2012-November-02, 06:37
Assuming 2/1, the action should go like this:
1♠-2♥
3♣-3♥
4♣-4♥ (No other fit except hearts, and best game avaible, dont have any extras to bid anything else)
4NT-5♥ (2 without ♥Q)
pass
#7
Posted 2012-November-02, 06:41
Codo, on 2012-November-02, 06:21, said:
AJ109 with side ace and Kx is not exactly a hand that needs to play hearts, opposite AKJxx x x AQJxxxx 6 club looks great and even 7♣ is playable.
I would bid 3♥ and then 4♥ to show a more flexible hand. For me 2♥-4♥ shows a more heart oriented hand (Normally ♥Q and not the ace). AJ109xxx is 2 losers opposite sigleton but zero losers in another strain
Depending on how you play 1♠-4♥ maybe you also have to start with 2♥ with weaker hands also.
#8
Posted 2012-November-02, 06:44
Zelandakh, on 2012-November-02, 02:10, said:
I think 4D was intended as Choice of Game, in which case it sends exactly the right message: that there is no primary fit. That should just fetch a quiet 4H from north. 4N over 4D is also an option.
#10
Posted 2012-November-02, 07:53
Fluffy, on 2012-November-02, 06:41, said:
I would bid 3♥ and then 4♥ to show a more flexible hand. For me 2♥-4♥ shows a more heart oriented hand (Normally ♥Q and not the ace). AJ109xxx is 2 losers opposite sigleton but zero losers in another strain
Depending on how you play 1♠-4♥ maybe you also have to start with 2♥ with weaker hands also.
But your idea is impossible too. My partner would never open a strong 5117 with 1 Spade not even a 5116 . And if my hand had been with the black suits switched, I had surely not bid 4 ♥ because game in spade could be so much better.
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#11
Posted 2012-November-02, 11:33
S knows of a misfit and has a broken suit. He has already bid 2/1 and even if that isn't game-forcing it wasn't a weakness bid. So I think 4♥ over 4♣ should be enough.
But N also knows of the misfit and, more importantly, knows that he has only one A. The stiff heart K is good, even on the auction as posted, with the potentially confusing 4♦call, but it can't be good enough to commit to slam.
In my opinion, both partners made poor choices towards the end.
Having said that, neither error was egregious, and thus it is not surprising that the quantitative bidding got the partnership to a contract that had play.
#12
Posted 2012-November-02, 11:44
- billw55
#13
Posted 2012-November-02, 11:59
4 ♥ over 4 ♣ tells opener despite opener being at least 5-5 in the black suits responder prefers to play in ♥s. That's exactly the message needed.
#14
Posted 2012-November-02, 12:42
lalldonn, on 2012-November-02, 11:44, said:
Yes, it does seem a good proposition. The trump queen dropping is 2/5 * 68 + 1/5 * 28 ~= 33%. If they lead a spade on 1/3 of the remaining hands, that gets us another 2/3 * 1/2 * 67 ~= 22%.
#15
Posted 2012-November-02, 14:17
North's hand isn't that great. The ♠K
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#16
Posted 2012-November-02, 14:23
Once again when we try to sort out trump at the four level, things get messy.
North's hand isn't really that great since the ♠KQ is hitting shortness.
- 3♣ usually shows five, so I don't understand the point of 4♣.
- South is rebidding into the face of a black two suiter. ♥K seems like sufficient support, so 4♦ over 3♥ looks like the right call.
Obviously its easier looking at both hands but something like this seems to flow better:
1♠ - 2♥
3♣ - 3♥
4♦ - RKC
response - 5♥.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#17
Posted 2012-November-04, 17:40
My hand is too strong for a jump to 4♥ once partner has bid 3♣ and ripping the NT shows I have a hand willing to play in hearts opposite a likely 5134 type shape.
In this case he's 5125 and with K♥ and an 18 count I'd roll out RCKB and when he hears 2 without the Q he should give up.