[thebiker]

Playing pairs your partner opens a 15-17 1NT

You hold:
S AJT972
H AQJ432
D void
C 8

How would you go about bidding this hand? Clearly a slam is likely but opposite certain holdings a grand may be possible
A major suit salm is likely but 6NT may be be needed to win the board.

How would you go about the bidding and the investigation of whether or not partner has the precise cards you need for the optimun contract.

At the table playing in a relatively new partnership, with few agreements available, I transferred to 2S then bid 6H, and partner corrected to 6S.

thank you in advance for your suggestions

Brian Keable
alias "thebiker"

[mr1303]

2H then 3H is a good way to say you have 5-5 and at least game forcing values. Once you've established that, you're going to have to guess at some point. Say it goes

1NT 2H
2S 3H
3S

then bidding 5D as Exclusion may work well. The problem is you need to know about the A of clubs, K of hearts and KQ of spades - and it isn't too easy to do that.

[mikeh]

There is no guarantee that you can always reach grand when it is there, but I don't understand why anyone would want to leap to slam on the second round of the bidding.

Opener MIGHT have a hand that justifies grand: for example KQx Kxxx Axx Axx or the like, but what if the key is which minor Ace he holds, and he holds only 1?

Or on a bad day, maybe he has Qxx xxx AKQx KQx, a full 16 and on a bad day we go down at the 5 level.

Obviously, methods can help here, but in a simple standard sort of method, in NA at least, we'd transfer to spades and then make a natural, game force 3♥ call and await developments.

He might, for example, bid 3N, warning us that he doesn't like either major...it would help if we played smolen, for example, since when playing smolen, our sequence promises at least 5-5 and now we know for sure that he is loaded in the minors and might even be 2-2.

I'll admit I'd have trouble settling at the 4 level even if he did make the regressive 3N call, but the main point is that if he does anything else, then I can be assured of a fit and can be somewhat more aggressive. If I were inclined to move towards slam over 3N, I'd bid 5♥ which shows a good and shapely 2-suiter, usually 6- or better, and invites slam. Partner will look at his majors and his side Aces and bid accordingly.

If I feared partner might pass, I'd bid 5♥as above.

Say he bid 3♠ over 3♥, showing a good hand, within the context of not superaccepting, I'd bid exclusion. However, for me, I would be treating the heart K as an ace, because I have announced length and he is known to hold at least 2 cards in the suit. Without that agreement, I'd just make a (forcing) 4♥ call. He cannot pass that, since spades are trump. I would never bid this way with longer hearts than clubs, so this has to be a cuebid. I will not cue shortness as my first cue in a slamming auction in which partner is known to or suspected of having some length and values in the suit...doing so causes him to overvalue his cards there.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mr1303, on 2013-October-31, 14:39, said:

2H then 3H is a good way to say you have 5-5 and at least game forcing values. Once you've established that, you're going to have to guess at some point. Say it goes

1NT 2H
2S 3H
3S

then bidding 5D as Exclusion may work well. The problem is you need to know about the A of clubs, K of hearts and KQ of spades - and it isn't too easy to do that.

And if Opener wants to agree ♥, he can make a Ctrl cuebid :

1NT - 2H!
2S - 3H ( ostensibly 5-5 )
4C! ( cue) - 5D ( Exclusion )
5NT ( 3rd step = 2 - ♥Q ) - ?? No reasonable way to find out about ♠ K and Q

[blackshoe]

mr1303, on 2013-October-31, 14:39, said:

2H then 3H is a good way to say you have 5-5 and at least game forcing values. Once you've established that, you're going to have to guess at some point. Say it goes

1NT 2H
2S 3H
3S

then bidding 5D as Exclusion may work well. The problem is you need to know about the A of clubs, K of hearts and KQ of spades - and it isn't too easy to do that.

Hm. Wouldn't "Six Ace RKCB" help with that?

[ggwhiz]

How about stayman? After the expected 2♦ response I play that 4♦ shows 5-5 or better in the majors.

After pard picks one you can cue diamonds followed by clubs at the 6 level and pard will at least be looking closely at their major suit holdings if they have the club Ace and might even stab 6nt. That could be a disaster if they think your diamond cue was the Ace though.

[whereagles]

I'm not sure there's a way to bid this properly with standard methods, but you can try the exclusion blackwood idea, yes.

[helene_t]

I am not sure if the scientific approach is that great on this hand even if we have all the tools we could dream of.

Partner has appr 16 of the 28 remainging HCPs so for each honour we need there is a little more than 50% chance that partner has it. Even if you know partner's full hand it is likely to be a guess - small slam might require a finesse, grand might require a finesse. In both cases it is not bad to bid small slam.

We need ♠KQ ♥K ♣A for a good grand so that is quite unlikely.

Your primitive bidding didn't give the diamond void away so opps won't always lead a club.

[gwnn]

2♥ then 6♥ is fine IMO. If you have some more wisdom and experience you should go for mikeh's approach.

[Zelandakh]

As always with NT questions, the answers depends on the system being employed. A common extension to Texas where I used to play is to use 1NT - 4♣ as showing both majors and a hand that either wants to play in 4M or that will ask. That would allow the sequence 1NT - 4♣; 4M - 5♦. In North America, at least, the sequence 1NT - 2♥; 2♠ - 3♥ is often used to show 5-5 majors and GF. For me, the equivalent sequence is 1NT - 2♦; 2♥ - 3♦ and that extra step, in conjunction with Asking Bids rather than traditional cues, allows a little more science in the resulting auction (but obviously needs strong and unusual agreements).

With a new partner, your approach of transfer followed by 6♥ does at least avoid the risk of having a misunderstanding somewhere along the way - it would be embarassing to find out partner plays 1NT - 2♥; 2♠ - 3♥ as an invite (as I do) for example. You certainly are not going to be risking XRKCB in such a partnership so going slowly has less appeal than it might in a more established partnership. One risk of this approach if playing with a real pick-up partner is that they might panic and think you did not mean 2♥ as a transfer after all, or that a jump to slam should always be passed. So you do need to have some experience and faith in partner before bidding this way too. Ideally, try to discuss a response structure if you plan to play with this partner again.

[RSClyde]

What's the advantage of transferring and then bidding 6♥? You might as well just bid 6♥ over 1nt. It would take partner having specifically 2 small and a 4-1 split for hearts to be the wrong suit. But I think there's a great advantage in concealing your second suit: makes the defense much more of a guess: they might even lead a spade.

[ArtK78]

This hand has some similarities to a hand I played recently in the District 4 NAOP, which I discussed at http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry760311

Rather than just jump to a small slam, an attempt should be made to find out if there is something better available. In our methods, a 3♠ bid shows a forcing to game hand with 5-5 in the majors or better. I would use that. When partner takes a preference, I would make the obviousl 4NT call (it should be played here as six-ace RKCB, since I have shown a 2 suiter, but in the NAOP hand which I linked to, above, it was regular RKCB). If we happen to have all of the key cards, a grand in hearts, spades or NT is very likely. Just need to find the ♠Q.

Whether you can bid this intellgently to find a grand without having the ♣A in opener's hand is something that I leave for others.

[thebiker]

Thank you all for your replies - some valuable suggestions for regular partnerships

The action 1NT opener was:
SQxx
HKxx
DAx
CAKxxx

The spade K was onside

regards
Brian Keable
alias "the biker"

[malcyo]

Useful to play 4D as both majors then over openers preference 5D as Exclusion KCB

[aguahombre]

RSClyde, on 2013-November-04, 13:58, said:

What's the advantage of transferring and then bidding 6♥? You might as well just bid 6♥ over 1nt. It would take partner having specifically 2 small and a 4-1 split for hearts to be the wrong suit. But I think there's a great advantage in concealing your second suit: makes the defense much more of a guess: they might even lead a spade.

Well, I think I would prefer to be in 6S at pairs if pard has, say KXXX KX KXX KQJX. It would be fun pitching all four losing clubs.