[bd71]

---

IMPs. Partnership agreement is for "light" pre-empts non-vul. 2/1 context: 2C is strong/forcing, 2D is weak/pre-emptive. Partner is likely NOT opening 11s unless they are Rule of 20.

If it matters, you are playing a bad team in a 7-board segment of a Swiss.

What is your call?

[mike777]

1c

no problem yet

[Mbodell]

If I'm playing 12-14 nt, 1nt, otherwise 1♣.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, but 1C is ok.

If I play a weaker team, than there is no hurry to get in.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Zelandakh]

This hand is a little heavier than my usual 3rd seat green openings but still below the maximum cap. Is 3♣ a serious suggestion???

[ahydra]

I can understand 1NT because of the "ugly rebid", but one shouldn't really be ashamed of rebidding AK98x, and I don't like 1NT with 2-2 in the majors. So 1C for me.

ahydra

[wyman]

1C in a strong NT context. This hand has 11 HCP, a real club suit, and it's the suit I'd suggest partner lead anyway. Not sure why I _wouldn't_ open this hand...

[MrAce]

wyman, on 2012-May-21, 06:32, said:

1C in a strong NT context. This hand has 11 HCP, a real club suit, and it's the suit I'd suggest partner lead anyway. Not sure why I _wouldn't_ open this hand...

-Because 1 minor openings are not a lead director, even in 3rd seat (though has more credibility than 1st or 2nd seat)

-By opening this hand you are willing to play at most a partscore, but unfortunately a partscore competition that you are likely to lose.

You don't have majors to compete
You dont have strength to compete
You dont have shape to compete

[nige1]

bd71 writes "IMPs. Partnership agreement is for "light" pre-empts non-vul. 2/1 context: 2C is strong/forcing, 2D is weak/pre-emptive. Partner is likely NOT opening 11s unless they are Rule of 20. If it matters, you are playing a bad team in a 7-board segment of a Swiss. What is your call?"

IMO: 1♣ = 10, Pass = 7, 3♣ = 6
You don't expect to win the auction but your 1♣ bid may indicate a lead to partner or help the defence in other ways.
Against good opponents, 3♣ is worth more consideration.

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[Phil]

I'm quirky about this shape in this seat and can see myself passing this.

[mike777]

I think pass just gives the opp more of a free run.

It puts all of our hopes in one basket ....that lho passes.

[Phil]

mike777, on 2012-May-22, 20:21, said:

I think pass just gives the opp more of a free run.

It puts all of our hopes in one basket ....that lho passes.

Do you think its more likely LHO will take a call if we open or pass?

[mike777]

given we are nv hard to find a hand where lho will pass if we pass.

I would rather fight with 1c then just give up.


I mean give lho 11 hcp and 4s...at least, given the auction so far very very often.


pard will almost never have 10 hcp and 4s.

[han]

I would definitely open 1C!

I think the passers have very strange ideas about how competitive auctions work. Many good things can happen after opening 1C. For example, a 1M overcall is much wider ranging than a 1M opening. If there is more bidding from our side (for example, when partner raises), the opponents will be doing more guessing after they have overcalled than after they have opened.

Timo says that we don't have the strength, shape or majors to compete. I don't buy any of these arguments. For one thing, we are merely opening 1C, and we won't do any more competing unless partner is involved as well.

Say the auction goes

...
1C - (1S) - 2S - (Dbl)
3C - ..

Why would this be bad for us? If they let us play in 3C, I'm happy. If they take the push to 3S, I'm happy as well. I'm always happy! Let's compare the auction to the following:

3 passes - (1M) - p - (2M)
...

Are we competing now? Our shape and strength certainly haven't improved, but letting them play 2M here also feels wrong. Instead of guessing at the 2 (3?) level, isn't it nice that we can start bidding at the 1-level and see what happens?

Another argument put forward by MrAce is that 1m openings are not lead directors, even though he admits that in third seat it may be more so than in first or second (Especially when we open hands like this!). I'd argue that opening 1X always has lead directing value. If partner is stuck for an opening lead and we have bid 1 suit, partner is more likely to lead our suit. Ergo, holding AK in the suit we are about to open is always a small plus.

Anyway, I think that passing with this in third seat is bad at any colors, but especially favorable.

[han]

Phil, on 2012-May-22, 20:55, said:

Do you think its more likely LHO will take a call if we open or pass?

You phrase the question as if it is an argument for passing, but I argued above that it is an argument for bidding: overcalls are wider ranging than openings, so they will have a harder time, especially if partner also bids (which is more likely when we open the bidding).

Anyway, I am not sure what the answer to your question is. If LHO has 15+ he'll probably bid regardless. If LHO has 12-14 he'll certainly bid if we pass, but he might pass if we bid, especially with a balanced hand. If LHO has 11 or less he might overcall if we open, but pass if we pass. However, these hands are not very common given that we have an 11-count and the other two have passed.

All together I don't know the answer to the question. Given that your question seems rethorical, I suspect that you didn't give it much thought yourself.

[kenberg]

I open a club. I can hardly improve on what Han said, but maybe a couple more words. Suppose the opponents now find a spade fit. Partner can look at his spades, figure I don't have many, and realize I have not opened a three card club suit. It's not that tough for him to figure I have four and maybe five clubs, the five especially if I generally open a diamond with 4-4, and he can do as he thinks right. That may be pass and lead a club. Sounds good. Or maybe he bids 3C. I can handle that.

The main reason I don't like to open minors light in third seat is that I don't want partner to worry about bidding 2NT with a suitable hand. That is a potential problem here, but I am not all that light, I have a suit, I am getting in.

[MrAce]

han, on 2012-May-23, 06:21, said:

I would definitely open 1C!

I think the passers have very strange ideas about how competitive auctions work. Many good things can happen after opening 1C. For example, a 1M overcall is much wider ranging than a 1M opening. If there is more bidding from our side (for example, when partner raises), the opponents will be doing more guessing after they have overcalled than after they have opened.

Timo says that we don't have the strength, shape or majors to compete. I don't buy any of these arguments. For one thing, we are merely opening 1C, and we won't do any more competing unless partner is involved as well.

Say the auction goes

...
1C - (1S) - 2S - (Dbl)
3C - ..

Why would this be bad for us? If they let us play in 3C, I'm happy. If they take the push to 3S, I'm happy as well. I'm always happy! Let's compare the auction to the following:

3 passes - (1M) - p - (2M)
...

Are we competing now? Our shape and strength certainly haven't improved, but letting them play 2M here also feels wrong. Instead of guessing at the 2 (3?) level, isn't it nice that we can start bidding at the 1-level and see what happens?

Another argument put forward by MrAce is that 1m openings are not lead directors, even though he admits that in third seat it may be more so than in first or second (Especially when we open hands like this!). I'd argue that opening 1X always has lead directing value. If partner is stuck for an opening lead and we have bid 1 suit, partner is more likely to lead our suit. Ergo, holding AK in the suit we are about to open is always a small plus.

Anyway, I think that passing with this in third seat is bad at any colors, but especially favorable

With all due respect i have to disagree with almost everything you said. Actually not almost but everything

But i know i am in minority.

[Statto]

Mbodell, on 2012-May-21, 02:54, said:

If I'm playing 12-14 nt, 1nt, otherwise 1♣.

Opening 1NT light in 3rd seat is very risky, even non-vul. I'm opening 1♣ even if playing WNT.

MrAce, on 2012-May-22, 19:23, said:

You don't have **** to compete

We do however have being non-vulnerable to compete.

[neilkaz]

Looks like a routine 1♣ to me. Too much defense to fool around with 3♣.

[gwnn]

When partner sees that we probably opened light, he should seriously consider leading the minor we opened. (admittedly, this is not always possible even if we opened light - and this hand isn't even light!)