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In this auction (playing 2/1, unopposed):
1♠-2♥
3♦-3♥
3♠-?
What is a good use for 4♣ here?
The background -- I had the opening hand. My partner had a strong 6-card heart suit, but also diamond support. She ended up bidding 4NT looking for slam in diamonds. She "signed off" in 5♦ after I bid 5♣ (1 KC in spades). Of course, I had no clue that she had diamond support, so I took it as a queen-ask in a spade contract. Disaster predictably ensued.
Partner remarked that she wanted to be able to use 4♣ as a keycard-ask for diamonds here, since it has no other logical meaning. Does this make sense? I'm not sure what a better use of 4♣ might be (cuebid implying spade support, general force, ?).
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What should 4C be here?
#2
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Posted 2012-May-11, 09:48
Underwood is the name of a singer/actress. If I sprung it on partner, undiscussed, during an auction, I wouldn't expect her to guess what you intended.
How that we have had a chance to discuss it, Nah
4C, IMO should be a strong way of showing our heart suit is trump....stronger than 4H.
How that we have had a chance to discuss it, Nah
4C, IMO should be a strong way of showing our heart suit is trump....stronger than 4H.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#3
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Posted 2012-May-11, 09:52
This sure sounds like the classic scenario for one of the various forms of unwinding the folks use, with 4♣ as an artificial relay.
Thus, for instance, you might bid 4♣ with all weak hands, planning to sign off after the forced 4♦ call, in whichever strain you deem appropriate. Alternatively, direct calls are usually kickback in that scheme (i.e., 4♥ as RKCB for diamonds, 4♠ as RKCB for hearts, and 4NT as RKCB for spades), with the missing strain call (4♦) presumably some sort of punt bid. That makes sense to me.
Alternatively, you could easily reverse these, with 4♣ as a relay to THEN bid Kickback, direct calls instead being weaker.
Thus, for instance, you might bid 4♣ with all weak hands, planning to sign off after the forced 4♦ call, in whichever strain you deem appropriate. Alternatively, direct calls are usually kickback in that scheme (i.e., 4♥ as RKCB for diamonds, 4♠ as RKCB for hearts, and 4NT as RKCB for spades), with the missing strain call (4♦) presumably some sort of punt bid. That makes sense to me.
Alternatively, you could easily reverse these, with 4♣ as a relay to THEN bid Kickback, direct calls instead being weaker.
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#4
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Posted 2012-May-11, 09:57
https://encrypted-tb...dHjd9hurZooHQ-w
I thought it was very strange to see the prince of darkness on my sandwich spread growing up.
4♣ shows a great hand in either hearts or spades.
I thought it was very strange to see the prince of darkness on my sandwich spread growing up.
4♣ shows a great hand in either hearts or spades.
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Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#5
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Posted 2012-May-13, 09:25
I would disagree strongly with your statement that this bid has no other logical meaning. My meta-rule for the 4th suit at the 4 level is that it shows a strong raise of the last bid suit, here spades. This seems like a perfectly logical meaning in this auction to me. If Responder wants to agree diamonds then perhaps they should do something radical like bidding diamonds.
Of course agua's suggested use is also sensible on this auction but it is more difficult to create a meta-rule around that. You could also make 4♣ multi-way I suppose, in line with ken's suggestion but in reverse. After 4♣ and a 4♦ relay, 4♥ might show a very good hand with solid hearts; 4♠ a very good hand with spade support; 4NT RKCB for hearts; and 5♣ Exclusion for hearts.
Alternatively, just stick with 4♣ showing spades and use the second round jump to 4♥ to differentiate between the weaker and stronger hands with solid hearts. I think it is better to have a meta-rule to cover all of these "unusual" bids than to try and optimise their use on every auction, unless you are playing at a high expert level anyway.
Of course agua's suggested use is also sensible on this auction but it is more difficult to create a meta-rule around that. You could also make 4♣ multi-way I suppose, in line with ken's suggestion but in reverse. After 4♣ and a 4♦ relay, 4♥ might show a very good hand with solid hearts; 4♠ a very good hand with spade support; 4NT RKCB for hearts; and 5♣ Exclusion for hearts.
Alternatively, just stick with 4♣ showing spades and use the second round jump to 4♥ to differentiate between the weaker and stronger hands with solid hearts. I think it is better to have a meta-rule to cover all of these "unusual" bids than to try and optimise their use on every auction, unless you are playing at a high expert level anyway.
(-: Zel :-)
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