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Kickback addicts

#21 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-May-18, 09:23

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Kickback is fine. Just because no italians or poles play it is irrelevant: why not argue that no NAs play what the italians play, so the italians should stop playing their methods?


My argument was only to show that "no kickback ever" is playable agreement as showed by elite players around the world. My arguments against kickback was that people, even great players, regularly have disasters because of it and if you have one -12 imp disaster because of kickback you will have to play 20 more years or so to make EV for it, not worth it.
If you have various bids in various sequences as ace ask with many not fully consistent rules guarding it you better be Meckwell to not screw it up.
Imo if you are not full time player having hours a day for working on your system you are hurting yourself by agreements like kickback because gains from it, if any are very small and disaster bound to happen very expensive.

As to the OP problem I don't understand how opener is bidding anything here. He is supposedly 18-19 balanced and partner might have 6hcp with 6-4 distribution, say: KQTx JTxxxx xx x or even weakier hand good enough for game opposite 18-19. If opener somehow feels his hand is good enough for forcing a slam here (which might only be because of miscounting points or something) the only reasonable slam might be in hearts as 3NT denied 4 spades. In that case 4NT must be rkcb for hearts as ace asking for spades is pointless in the context.
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#22 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 12:38

Another kickback question...

(P) 1 (1) 2
(4) ?

Is 4N a spade cue here and are we unable to ask for keycards?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#23 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 22:05

View Postjillybean, on 2012-June-03, 12:38, said:

Another kickback question...

(P) 1 (1) 2
(4) ?

Is 4N a spade cue here and are we unable to ask for keycards?

I would take it as 2 places to play, irrespective of whether playing Kickback...
A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem – Albert Einstein
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#24 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 16:05

View Postjillybean, on 2012-June-03, 12:38, said:

Is 4N a spade cue here and are we unable to ask for keycards?

Step 1: Agree Suit
Step 2: Cuebid
Step 3: Ask for Keycards

Step 2 is optional. Step 1 isn't.
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#25 User is offline   Quartic 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 16:47

View Postjillybean, on 2012-May-04, 00:15, said:

We had this auction on the partnership bidding table tonight.

1:1
2N:3
3N:4
4N*

Is 4N here kickback for spades or keycard for hearts? It seems like it could go either way so we devised the following
rule. If we have not agreed to a suit below the 4 level, 4N is ace ask for the suit immeidately preceding 4N.

How do others handle this?


I think 4NT should be double rkcb - ie both major Kings are keycards. We're probably headed to 6, but the King is likely to be just as important as the King.
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#26 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 16:59

View Postjillybean, on 2012-June-03, 12:38, said:

Another kickback question...

(P) 1 (1) 2
(4) ?

Is 4N a spade cue here and are we unable to ask for keycards?



I dont have a way to ask for keycards here.

Not sure what 4nt is but it is not rkc, I would take it as two places to play, undiscussed.

In any event dont pass 4nt :)

would take 5s as exclusion with d's as trumps.
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#27 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-June-05, 09:58

To the first question :
I play a kickback, and if I was in this situation and wanted to ace ask after partners 45xx shape shown by the 3 bid, I would have done so at that point. The fact that partner now appears to be 46xx is not going to launch me into slam mode. I don't read this as a slam suggestion. So 4NT is to play, and I am probably a sound 3154 with excellent minors. Not that I would bid 4NT even so, but that would be my interpretation.

I have no lupine agreements, and don't know how that would affect things.
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