[Coelacanth]

Standard American, 2/1 is NOT GF

IMPs, 7-board matches

---

3♣ does not promise extra values, but should be a real suit

3♥ would be artificial and forcing to game
4♣ would be RKCB for clubs
4NT had not been discussed; what do you think it should be?

What call do you make?

At the table I considered 3♥, 3NT, 4♣, 5♣, and 6♣. Any other calls come to mind?

[han]

Some may not agre with me, but I think you created this problem for yourself by playing that 4C asks for keycards. It may be a good idea to play minorwood when it is a jump, or when you have already agreed on a suit. But here you really shouldn't play it, you need to be able to raise clubs without having to ask for keycards!

[mr1303]

What Han said. If I'm stuck with these agreements, I'm going to assume that a grand off the ace of spades is too small a target to aim for, and so I'm going to bid 4C key card anyway. Everything else seems to be worse.

3H followed by 4C will leave partner wanting to discourage us too much with Axxxx. Everything else is a complete guess.

[aguahombre]

han, on 2012-April-30, 11:57, said:

Some may not agre with me, but I think you created this problem for yourself by playing that 4C asks for keycards. It may be a good idea to play minorwood when it is a jump, or when you have already agreed on a suit. But here you really shouldn't play it, you need to be able to raise clubs without having to ask for keycards!

O.K., so what is your choice when you must do something and are stuck with the conditions?

IMHO, the combination of 3C not showing extras and 2/1 not being G.F. is deadly as well, and we are not going to learn what we need to know. Before some worse accident happens, I would jump to 6C...then try to improve our methods later. But, I still want to hear Han's choice.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Hopefully, Opener was not a bare minimum or sub-minimum with 5-5 in the blacks.

If he were, you might subscribe to opening 1C with such a hand.
If Responder has a GF hand, the auction could go ( my special treatment ):
1C - 1.red
1S - 2.other.red ( 4th suit GF )
then
??
..2S = minimum or sub-minimum 5/5 or
..3S-jump = the rare 5s/6c worthy of reverse values.

However, for this hand you would have an easy, immediate 2C! inverted minor raise ( GF ) and you could be "off to the races" :

1C - 2C!

[MrAce]

aguahombre, on 2012-April-30, 14:20, said:

IMHO, the combination of 3C not showing extras and 2/1 not being G.F. is deadly as well, and we are not going to learn what we need to know.

+1

[gszes]

I would start with 3h if p cannot bid
3n then chances for slam are probably
no better than 5050---who knows maybe
p will be able to bid 4d if no 3n and
slam will look better than ever?? A
good rule of thumb when no clear action
presents itself is to keep the bidding
as low as possible you never know what
will happen next.

[Coelacanth]

OK, thanks everyone for your thoughts.

When I said 3♣ did not promise extras, it obviously shows either a good hand or a good suit or both. If he was worried about getting too high opposite a minimum 2♦ bid he could rebid 2♠ or 2NT.

The South hand was ♠KQJxx ♥Ax ♦Q ♣AJ975.

Note the club spots; the opponents clubs were the 4, 3, and 2. Which means that 7♣ is cold on a non-trump lead on a high crossruff, and might make even with a trump lead with a favorable position in spades and/or diamonds.

Had I bid 3♥, partner says he would have bid 3NT.

If I bid 4♣, and partner responds 4♠ (two keycards, no trump queen), how do I distinguish his actual hand (where slam is cold) from say ♠AKJxx ♥Jx ♦Q ♣AJxxx, which might be off two fast heart tricks?

Is there a good sequence that will allow us to bid to 6♣ with confidence? (I'm not sure 13 tricks are cold; I know the ♠A was wrong, but the diamonds may set up for a discard.)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Coelacanth, on 2012-May-01, 08:13, said:

OK, thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Is there a good sequence that will allow us to bid to 6♣ with confidence?

1) 3C in this auction should show "extras" .

2) When minor suit agreement is first shown at the 4-level, then kickback becomes RKC ( 4D! here ).
[ If suit agreement were at the 3-level, then 4C! would be Minorwood-RKC ] .

3) This way Opener can become Captain:

1S - 2D! ( 2/1 GF )
3C - 4C
4D! - 5C ( 4th step = 2 + cQ ... I wouldn't show the void reply since ♠-void is hardly useful-- partner's suit)
6C

[FrancesHinden]

Coelacanth, on 2012-May-01, 08:13, said:

OK, thanks everyone for your thoughts.

When I said 3♣ did not promise extras, it obviously shows either a good hand or a good suit or both. If he was worried about getting too high opposite a minimum 2♦ bid he could rebid 2♠ or 2NT.

The South hand was ♠KQJxx ♥Ax ♦Q ♣AJ975.

Note the club spots; the opponents clubs were the 4, 3, and 2. Which means that 7♣ is cold on a non-trump lead on a high crossruff, and might make even with a trump lead with a favorable position in spades and/or diamonds.

Had I bid 3♥, partner says he would have bid 3NT.

If I bid 4♣, and partner responds 4♠ (two keycards, no trump queen), how do I distinguish his actual hand (where slam is cold) from say ♠AKJxx ♥Jx ♦Q ♣AJxxx, which might be off two fast heart tricks?

Is there a good sequence that will allow us to bid to 6♣ with confidence? (I'm not sure 13 tricks are cold; I know the ♠A was wrong, but the diamonds may set up for a discard.)

Sorry to repeat what others have already said, but the answer is not to play 4C as keycard when you haven't had a chance to agree clubs.
Raise 3C to 4C, natural and forcing, and partner can cue the ace of hearts.

[Zelandakh]

Surely the real answer is to remember that 1♠ - 2♦ - 3♣ is a high-hat reverse showing significant extras and not to use this very expensive sequence frivolously with rubbish. A realistic sequence for me is

1♠ = 10-17, 5+ spades, unbal
... - 1NT = INV+ relay
2♥ = max, 4+ clubs, GF
... - 2♠ = relay
2NT = 5+ clubs
... - 3♣ = relay
3♥ = 5215
... - 3♠ = relay
4♦ = 5 controls
... - 4♥ = relay
5♦ = controls in spades, clubs and diamonds, no ♦A
... - 6♣

In discussing a sequence for a natural system we could get into the long-running debate about which suit to open with 5-5 in the blacks for various strengths.