[rduran1216]

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[jillybean]

What is (2♥) X for you?

[rduran1216]

would tend to show values, it'd be penalty oriented

[CSGibson]

What flight GNT? (more curiosity than anything).

Anyway, I would like E to X 2H. He has values without 4 spades, W either has 3+ hearts or many many extra values, this seems totally normal to me.

[rduran1216]

CSGibson, on 2012-April-29, 23:44, said:

What flight GNT? (more curiosity than anything).

Anyway, I would like E to X 2H. He has values without 4 spades, W either has 3+ hearts or many many extra values, this seems totally normal to me.

A. We were concocting a Long Beach team to try to compete, but got bounced by a fairly solid team with Howie Einberg and company, reality is we were very unlucky and our teammates seemed to screw the pooch on alot of hands like this one. Our East passed throughout our opponents bid an untouchable 5C, that was our semifinal experience, thought id get some feedback on these.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if X of 2H showes values and is penalty oriented, than this description looks like
a reasonable approximation of the East hand.

For us X would be for T/O, showing heart shortage.

I guess, I would have bid 3C with the East hand, but this is certainly not clear cut.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[CSGibson]

Did they guess the ♠J? Who did they play for it? I would guess, based on the bidding, that lefty has 4 spades and righty 3, but one of lefty's spades is "known" to be the ace, so that's 3 spots for a J for each of them...not much to go on.

[gnasher]

I think East should bid 3♣ over 2♥. You can't afford to go quietly on such a good hand, and doubling 2♥ doesn't feel quite right with only xxx, when they're quite likely to be 1-3-6 around the table.

I don't understand why you want to be in game on these cards: 5♣ seems to have three inescapable losers. We can avoid a fourth loser by stripping North of diamonds and then endplaying him: win ♦A, lose a club, win the club return, diamond ruff, club to hand, diamond ruff, exit with a low heart.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-April-30, 04:16

[Phil]

rduran1216, on 2012-April-30, 00:23, said:

A. We were concocting a Long Beach team to try to compete, but got bounced by a fairly solid team with Howie Einberg and company, reality is we were very unlucky and our teammates seemed to screw the pooch on alot of hands like this one. Our East passed throughout our opponents bid an untouchable 5C, that was our semifinal experience, thought id get some feedback on these.

Einberg had a tough A team.

[Fluffy]

passing a partscore from the opponents when you know your side is stronger is a bad idea in general, when you knwo partner cannot reopen with a double its suicide.

You can aim for 9 tricks in clubs or 6 in hearts, both options are fine, I would got for 3♣.

[ArtK78]

If I were East I would bid 3♣ over 2♥. If the opps bid 3♦, I suspect that I would double. This should be our hand.

It seems that we will wind up in 4♣, which is a perfectly normal spot.

East wea incredibly timid on this hand. One cannot remain silent with a 10 count opposite a partner who made a takeout double.

[mikeh]

Being a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, I have empathy for East...and clearly it's up to East to bid....so I don't understand why this is an ATB. I'd think the better post would have been to give E's hand and the auction through 2 and ask what one should bid as East.

I mean, 3♣ is a bit of a position on a 4 card suit, when partner is quite likely to hold only 3 cards (or fewer) in the suit....don't we all routinely double with 4=4=2=3?

Now, the 2♥ bid makes it far more likely that partner has 4 clubs, since hearts being 6=3=3=1 around the table is the 'normal' distribution (West likely, if we had to guess, to be 4=3=2=4), but that makes the club call somewhat risky....on the marked heart lead/switch.

Having said all that, passing as East is as dangerous as bidding, and bidding has more upside.

So I do think that East wears it on this hand...but would we reach game if East bid 3♣? That isn't clear to me and in fact I doubt it....why should West move? It's not like he has a big double....

[ArtK78]

mikeh, on 2012-April-30, 10:51, said:

Being a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, I have empathy for East...and clearly it's up to East to bid....so I don't understand why this is an ATB. I'd think the better post would have been to give E's hand and the auction through 2 and ask what one should bid as East.

I mean, 3♣ is a bit of a position on a 4 card suit, when partner is quite likely to hold only 3 cards (or fewer) in the suit....don't we all routinely double with 4=4=2=3?

Now, the 2♥ bid makes it far more likely that partner has 4 clubs, since hearts being 6=3=3=1 around the table is the 'normal' distribution (West likely, if we had to guess, to be 4=3=2=4), but that makes the club call somewhat risky....on the marked heart lead/switch.

Having said all that, passing as East is as dangerous as bidding, and bidding has more upside.

So I do think that East wears it on this hand...but would we reach game if East bid 3♣? That isn't clear to me and in fact I doubt it....why should West move? It's not like he has a big double....

Mike, do you really want to be in game on this hand? I am assuming that you mean 5♣. Doesn't look like a great contract on this bidding.

[mikeh]

ArtK78, on 2012-April-30, 11:14, said:

Mike, do you really want to be in game on this hand? I am assuming that you mean 5♣. Doesn't look like a great contract on this bidding.

Agreed...but my post said, or implied, that we wouldn't reach game. And I gave all of the blame to East, so I'm not sure of your post......I think I pretty much implied that if East bid 3♣, west would pass....even if west invited, surely East would pass?

The blame E gets is selling out to 3♦, since I assume that that contract made (it's tough to see a layout consistent with the bidding on which 3♦ fails)....if east bid 3♣, and S bid 3♦, now W takes the push to the 4 level and E passes.

[rmnka447]

East is looking at 10 HCP opposite a partner with presumably an opening bid. That adds up to about 23-24 HCPs, so it's definitely E/W's hand.

I think East has to take some action over the 2 ♥ bid. If a double would be responsive, then that's probably the clearest call to make. Otherwise, I think East should bid 3 ♣. It's not a perfect bid, but East does have 4 ♣ honors and the appropriate values to go with the bid. Since West doubled, East knows West is unlikely to have 5 ♠ unless the West hand is a double and bid your suit hand. So there's only at best a 4-3 spade fit. East could also end up playing 3 ♣ in a 4-3 fit, but with West advertising ♦ shortness that's OK as the short hand will be able to take the ♦ ruffs.

Once East passes, West is an impossible position to know whether to compete further.

[FrancesHinden]

CSGibson, on 2012-April-30, 02:51, said:

Did they guess the ♠J? Who did they play for it? I would guess, based on the bidding, that lefty has 4 spades and righty 3, but one of lefty's spades is "known" to be the ace, so that's 3 spots for a J for each of them...not much to go on.

Hearts 6-0 has a bit of an impact on where the jack is spades is likely to be, and during the play you will discover the diamond and club layouts.

Anyway, as Andy says picking up the SJ is still only 10 tricks, where is the 11th?

[rduran1216]

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[Fluffy]

mikeh, on 2012-April-30, 10:51, said:

I mean, 3♣ is a bit of a position on a 4 card suit, when partner is quite likely to hold only 3 cards (or fewer) in the suit....don't we all routinely double with 4=4=2=3?

And with 4432 most people double as well, but it doesn't make it likelly, the average number of clubs for partner is still at 3.8 or more.